From sentto-44114-15113-1029517390-lojban-in=lojban.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Fri Aug 16 10:03:44 2002 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Fri, 16 Aug 2002 10:03:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from n20.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.66.76]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.05) id 17fkVi-0000bv-00 for lojban-in@lojban.org; Fri, 16 Aug 2002 10:03:42 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-44114-15113-1029517390-lojban-in=lojban.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.94] by n20.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Aug 2002 17:03:10 -0000 X-Sender: a-rosta@alphaphe.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_7_4); 16 Aug 2002 17:03:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 29026 invoked from network); 16 Aug 2002 17:03:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Aug 2002 17:03:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp.alphaphe.net) (217.33.150.223) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Aug 2002 17:03:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 23328 invoked by uid 101); 16 Aug 2002 17:02:59 -0000 Received: from host213-120-12-16.webport.bt.net (HELO oemcomputer) (213.120.12.16) by smtp.alphaphe.net with SMTP; 16 Aug 2002 17:02:59 -0000 To: Message-ID: X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 In-Reply-To: <169.122c59f2.2a8cf701@aol.com> X-EDATA: smtp.alphaphe.net 1.6.2 0/1000/N X-AntiVirus: scanned for viruses by AlphaPhe.Net (www.alphaphe.net) From: "And Rosta" X-Yahoo-Profile: andjamin MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list lojban@yahoogroups.com; contact lojban-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list lojban@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 18:04:31 +0100 Subject: RE: [lojban] kau -- What does it really mean?! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 643 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: a-rosta@alphaphe.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list pc: > a-rosta@alphaphe.com writes: > , kau became meaningless; it converts direct > questions into indirect questions. In my view, it can't even be > seen as some kind of logical converter, because I think indirect > questions are semantically more basic than direct questions > > This seems an odd position: how can one talk about a direct question > until there is one to talk about. Admitedly, if you go by the > performative-verb-head style grammar, then questions arise from a "I > ask Q" structure, but there is no reason to think that, at that > level, Q is distinctly indirect, that being a surface feature which > might emerge if the preformative is also brought to the surface. I don't know what "distinctly indirect" means. What I meant is that I think the best way to achieve a unified account of direct and indirect questions -- i.e. a unified account of semantic interrogativity -- is to adopt a "performative-verb-head style grammar", which then handles direct questions in the way that indirect questions are handled. The motivation goes beyond that, in that semantically, direct questions involve an element of directive illocutionary force -- or at least the act of posing a question -- plus an element of interrogativity, while in indirect questions there is only the element of interrogativity. None of this really matters for Lojban: the only implication is that the semantics of kau is not strictly compositional. --And. ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Discover Remote PC Acess Now http://us.click.yahoo.com/p5uw2C/1ncEAA/RN.GAA/GSaulB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe, send mail to lojban-unsubscribe@onelist.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/