From sentto-44114-15750-1032191788-lojban-in=lojban.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Mon Sep 16 09:04:38 2002 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Mon, 16 Sep 2002 09:04:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from n26.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.66.82]) by digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.05) id 17qyMW-0003cC-00 for lojban-in@lojban.org; Mon, 16 Sep 2002 09:04:36 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-44114-15750-1032191788-lojban-in=lojban.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.193] by n26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Sep 2002 15:56:28 -0000 X-Sender: arosta@uclan.ac.uk X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_1_3); 16 Sep 2002 15:56:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 51497 invoked from network); 16 Sep 2002 15:56:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Sep 2002 15:56:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO com1.uclan.ac.uk) (193.61.255.3) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Sep 2002 15:56:27 -0000 Received: from gwise-gw1.uclan.ac.uk by com1.uclan.ac.uk with SMTP (Mailer); Mon, 16 Sep 2002 16:24:35 +0100 Received: from DI1-Message_Server by gwise-gw1.uclan.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 16 Sep 2002 16:56:49 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.5.2 To: lojban From: And Rosta X-Yahoo-Profile: andjamin MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list lojban@yahoogroups.com; contact lojban-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list lojban@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 16:56:34 +0100 Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: I like chocolate Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 1239 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: arosta@uclan.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list xorxes: #la pycyn cusku di'e #[lo pixra be lo'e sincrboa] #>Sorry, I thought you meant an accurate picture of a generic boa, because, #>once you get away from that, it gets hard to keep up the claim that it is a #>pictue of a generic boa rather than something else that it is an accurate #>picture of. # #Right. I don't want to claim that there is anything that it is #a picture of. I don't want to make the claim: {da poi ... zo'u #ta pixra da}. Why exactly don't you want to make that claim? There's certainly a sense in which the picture could depict a particular boa that even if it doesn't exist in this world, exists in another world (that the picture is a window onto). Here I see no problem with {da}, as long as there is appropriate use of {ka'e} or {su'o mu'ei} or suchlike. This is the sort of situation that would arise in describing a picture of Sherlock: I don't think we should be forced to say {pixra lo'e -detective} -- {pixra le ka'e -detective} (or le su'o mu'ei -detective} is much better. But there's another sense of "picture of a" not so happily covered by the above alternative. For example, "on the taskbar button on my email software there is a picture of a diskette" -- here I certainly don't want to say that there is a diskette that exists in some worlds that may or may not include this one, and that is depicted by the taskbar button. Rather, I mean something like the pattern on the taskbar button has the visual aspects of the property of diskettehood. Something like {ta ckaji zei pixra tu'o du'u ce'u -diskette}, with {ckaji zei pixra} defined as "has visual aspects of property x2". This is much more like the case you've been talking about, but I am yet to be persuaded that it calls for {lo'e}. --And. ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Sell a Home for Top $ http://us.click.yahoo.com/RrPZMC/jTmEAA/MVfIAA/GSaulB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe, send mail to lojban-unsubscribe@onelist.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/