From sentto-44114-15766-1032219566-lojban-in=lojban.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Mon Sep 16 16:41:30 2002 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Mon, 16 Sep 2002 16:41:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from n6.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.66.90]) by digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.05) id 17r5Ud-0007n7-01 for lojban-in@lojban.org; Mon, 16 Sep 2002 16:41:27 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-44114-15766-1032219566-lojban-in=lojban.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.94] by n6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Sep 2002 23:39:26 -0000 X-Sender: jjllambias@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_1_3); 16 Sep 2002 23:39:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 57782 invoked from network); 16 Sep 2002 23:39:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Sep 2002 23:39:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (216.33.241.65) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Sep 2002 23:39:26 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 16 Sep 2002 16:39:26 -0700 Received: from 200.69.6.47 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 16 Sep 2002 23:39:25 GMT To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Sep 2002 23:39:26.0217 (UTC) FILETIME=[4AFD6790:01C25DDA] From: "Jorge Llambias" X-Originating-IP: [200.69.6.47] X-Yahoo-Profile: jjllambias2000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list lojban@yahoogroups.com; contact lojban-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list lojban@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 23:39:25 +0000 Subject: [lojban] Could this be it? (was: I like chocolate) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 1254 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jjllambias@hotmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list la and cusku di'e >Something like {ta ckaji zei pixra tu'o du'u ce'u >-diskette}, with {ckaji zei pixra} defined as "has visual aspects >of property x2". This is much more like the case you've been >talking about, but I am yet to be persuaded that it calls for >{lo'e}. Well, I wouldn't mind saying that, using {kairpixra} defined as above, {ta pixra lo'e cukcma} means {ta kairpixra tu'o du'u ce'u cukcma}. But, since {kairpixra} is not well defined in terms of {pixra}, this doesn't really help to define {lo'e}. But wait, we can at least define {pixra} in terms of {kairpixra} as: {ko'a pixra ko'e} <=> {ko'a kairpixra tu'o du'u ce'u du ko'e} Then we have: {ko'a pixra lo broda} = {lo broda zo'u ko'a kairpixra tu'o du'u ce'u du by} {ko'a pixra lo'e broda} = {ko'a kairpixra tu'o du'u lo broda zo'u ce'u du by} Now we can do the same for {viska}: We introduce a new predicate {kairviska} that means "x1 sees something that exhibits property x2". Then we have that {ko'a viska ko'e} is defined as {ko'a kairviska tu'o du'u ce'u du ko'e}. Then: {ko'a viska lo broda} = {lo broda zo'u ko'a kairviska tu'o du'u ce'u du by} {ko'a viska lo'e broda} = {ko'a kairviska tu'o du'u lo broda zo'u ce'u du by} Can this be so simple and still be right, or am I forgetting something? What happens with the lion? {kairselxabju} = x1 is inhabited by things with property x2" {lo'e cinfo cu xabju le friko} = {le friko cu se kairselxabju tu'o lo cinfo zo'u ce'u du cy} So, if we understand the kair- predicates, we understand {lo'e}. ({sisku} was turned by force into what would have been {kairsisku}, but hopefully usage will bring it back to sanity.) Can it really be so simple? mu'o mi'e xorxes _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> 4 DVDs Free +s&p Join Now http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/MVfIAA/GSaulB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe, send mail to lojban-unsubscribe@onelist.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/