From sentto-44114-15878-1032452643-lojban-in=lojban.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Thu Sep 19 09:27:51 2002 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Thu, 19 Sep 2002 09:27:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from n19.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.66.74]) by digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.05) id 17s49d-0003uP-00 for lojban-in@lojban.org; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 09:27:49 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-44114-15878-1032452643-lojban-in=lojban.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.199] by n19.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Sep 2002 16:24:03 -0000 X-Sender: jjllambias@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_1_3); 19 Sep 2002 16:24:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 72225 invoked from network); 19 Sep 2002 16:24:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 19 Sep 2002 16:24:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (216.33.240.143) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Sep 2002 16:24:02 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 09:24:01 -0700 Received: from 200.49.74.2 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 16:24:01 GMT To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Sep 2002 16:24:01.0739 (UTC) FILETIME=[F6D3A9B0:01C25FF8] From: "Jorge Llambias" X-Originating-IP: [200.49.74.2] X-Yahoo-Profile: jjllambias2000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list lojban@yahoogroups.com; contact lojban-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list lojban@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 16:24:01 +0000 Subject: RE: [lojban] Could this be it? (was: I like chocolate) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 1365 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jjllambias@hotmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list la and cusku di'e >I go along with you about {lo'e broda} not entailing >{da broda}. If {lo'i broda cu no mei}, then no da broda but >we can still legitimately talk about lo'e broda. Agreed. >But we may disagree about the other bit. I see no difference between >{lo'e broda cu klama} and {la tom klama}. Both, I think, entail >{da klama}, yet both may lack an extension in a given world. For me, names must have a referent in the corresponding world. Also, I could not use a name to get the same sense of {lo'e broda}. I can say {zo tom cmene lo'e pavyseljirna}, which says that "Tom" is a name of unicorns, but it does not mean that using the name {la tom} will have the same effect as using the generic NP {lo'e pavyseljirna} in another sentence. >If we >say "lo'e pavyseljirna cu blabi", I don't see why that shouldn't >entail "da blabi", within the worlds in which {lo'e pavyseljirna >cu blabi} or {la tom cu blabi} (where la tom is a or the unicorn) >is true. {la tom cu blabi} does entail {da blabi}, no argument about that, and of course in worlds with unicorns one could be called Tom. In words with no unicorns, there can't be a unicorn called Tom, obviously, but {lo'e pavyseljirna cu blabi} can still be true. Indeed in those worlds {lo'e pavyseljirna cu pavyseljirna} is true, "unicorns are unicorns", and {da pavyseljirna} is false. mu'o mi'e xorxes _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Sell a Home with Ease! http://us.click.yahoo.com/SrPZMC/kTmEAA/MVfIAA/GSaulB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe, send mail to lojban-unsubscribe@onelist.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/