From sentto-44114-16064-1032883385-lojban-in=lojban.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Tue Sep 24 09:07:46 2002 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Tue, 24 Sep 2002 09:07:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from n4.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.66.88]) by digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.05) id 17tsDv-0001u6-01 for lojban-in@lojban.org; Tue, 24 Sep 2002 09:07:43 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-44114-16064-1032883385-lojban-in=lojban.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.193] by n4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Sep 2002 16:03:05 -0000 X-Sender: arosta@uclan.ac.uk X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_1_3); 24 Sep 2002 16:03:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 82881 invoked from network); 24 Sep 2002 16:03:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Sep 2002 16:03:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO com1.uclan.ac.uk) (193.61.255.3) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Sep 2002 16:03:04 -0000 Received: from gwise-gw1.uclan.ac.uk by com1.uclan.ac.uk with SMTP (Mailer); Tue, 24 Sep 2002 16:30:46 +0100 Received: from DI1-Message_Server by gwise-gw1.uclan.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 24 Sep 2002 17:03:23 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.5.2 To: opoudjis , lojban From: And Rosta X-Yahoo-Profile: andjamin MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list lojban@yahoogroups.com; contact lojban-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list lojban@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 17:02:51 +0100 Subject: [lojban] Re: rau Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 1552 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: arosta@uclan.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list Further evidence that you are right is that a distinction is made between du'e and mo'a, "too many", "too few", but rau is "enough" and there is no "few enough"/"many enough" contrast. --And. >>> Nick Nicholas 09/24/02 04:39pm >>> Like the list needed yet another instance of an ambiguously defined cmavo... The What Is Lojban brochure speaks of being "enoughth in line" to get a ticket for a movie. In private email (which I've posted as errata, and am now working through), Arnt complains: > *** (Difficult-to-fix issues) "and one can talk of being "enough-th in > line" for tickets to a sellout movie" Now wait a minute. Is there any > other ways in Lojban to number the places in a line than to call the > foremost number 1? In that case, one would want to have a *small > enough* number in line, instead of *large enough*, as I think "raumoi" > must mean. Jorge responds: > ****Interesting issue! I think ''rau'' should be able to mean "few > enough" in contexts where fewer is more significant. I can't think of > a case where this would cause problems. --[xorxes] The cmavo itself is defined merely as "enough; subjective" In accordance with the supplicatory model: If Lojbab wrote this text, then Lojbab must have intended "rau" to mean 'small enough' as well as 'large enough'. The formal way of stating this without being braindamaged is: "rau" indicates a quantity which is satisfactory for the purposes of the perspective-holder in context [not necessarily the speaker], as they can be inferred from context. Its reference is not constrained to being a ceiling value ('large enough value'), it may be a floor ('small enough value') or a median value, according to context. (This is the kind of thing I'd like to see in a mini-dict, btw.) Kai san swqhkan t' akriba piota, N N O nickn@unimelb.edu.au kai san plhsiaze pia h wra tesseres, I I L http://www.opoudjis.net ston erwta doqhkan eutuxeis. C C A Universtity of Melbourne K.P.Kabafhs, _Duo Neoi, 23 Ews 24 Etwn_ K H S *Ceci n'est pas un .sig* To unsubscribe, send mail to lojban-unsubscribe@onelist.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> 4 DVDs Free +s&p Join Now http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/ySSFAA/GSaulB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe, send mail to lojban-unsubscribe@onelist.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/