From sentto-44114-16130-1033142274-lojban-in=lojban.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Fri Sep 27 09:01:08 2002 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Fri, 27 Sep 2002 09:01:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from n20.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.66.76]) by digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.05) id 17uxY9-0002lX-00 for lojban-in@lojban.org; Fri, 27 Sep 2002 09:01:05 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-44114-16130-1033142274-lojban-in=lojban.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.194] by n20.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Sep 2002 15:57:55 -0000 X-Sender: a.rosta@lycos.co.uk X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_1_4); 27 Sep 2002 15:57:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 83513 invoked from network); 27 Sep 2002 15:57:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 27 Sep 2002 15:57:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailbox-14.st1.spray.net) (212.78.202.114) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Sep 2002 15:57:54 -0000 Received: from oemcomputer (unknown [213.121.71.237]) by mailbox-14.st1.spray.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 2D1E64A02B for ; Fri, 27 Sep 2002 17:57:49 +0200 (DST) To: Message-ID: X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <29.2dcaefbc.2ac50f28@aol.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "And Rosta" X-Yahoo-Profile: andjamin MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list lojban@yahoogroups.com; contact lojban-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list lojban@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2002 16:59:25 +0100 Subject: [lojban] Re: paroi ro mentu Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 1618 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: a.rosta@lycos.co.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list pc: > jjllambias@hotmail.com writes: > << [...] > It is still very tempting to just say {paroi ro mentu} > though. Could we say that the tagged sumti's quantifier has > scope over the tag's quantifier? > >> > Not too easily, without mucking with the left to right scope marking. > Is it the case that the tense attached to a selbri is, like {na} to > be taken as at the far left of the prefix. Obviously yes, as it > should be. So, how do we override that? Explicitly seems the only > answer: {ze'a ro mentu paroiku zo'u ...} But how to do it on the > fly? I remember asking to build in context leapers a long time > agoand having that idea rejecteed out of hand. Maybe it is time to > make the suggestion again -- on loCCan, fo course. As I recall, the scope leaping idea wasn't rejected out of hand; it just died because nobody succeeded in proposing a workable solution. The problem with indicating scope by afterthought means is that it is extremely hard to show where something has to leap to. IMO, the grammatical and mental complexity of a functional system of afterthought scope marking would outweigh its benefits. --And. ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Sell a Home with Ease! http://us.click.yahoo.com/SrPZMC/kTmEAA/MVfIAA/GSaulB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe, send mail to lojban-unsubscribe@onelist.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/