From sentto-44114-16238-1033320977-lojban-in=lojban.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sun Sep 29 10:39:43 2002 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Sun, 29 Sep 2002 10:39:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from n24.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.66.80]) by digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.05) id 17vi2e-0004aM-01 for lojban-in@lojban.org; Sun, 29 Sep 2002 10:39:40 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-44114-16238-1033320977-lojban-in=lojban.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.196] by n24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Sep 2002 17:36:17 -0000 X-Sender: jjllambias@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_1_4); 29 Sep 2002 17:36:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 15715 invoked from network); 29 Sep 2002 17:36:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Sep 2002 17:36:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (216.33.241.102) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Sep 2002 17:36:16 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 29 Sep 2002 10:36:16 -0700 Received: from 200.69.6.30 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sun, 29 Sep 2002 17:36:16 GMT To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 29 Sep 2002 17:36:16.0776 (UTC) FILETIME=[B6D75080:01C267DE] From: "Jorge Llambias" X-Originating-IP: [200.69.6.30] X-Yahoo-Profile: jjllambias2000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list lojban@yahoogroups.com; contact lojban-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list lojban@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2002 17:36:16 +0000 Subject: [lojban] Re: paroi ro mentu Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 1726 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jjllambias@hotmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list la djorden cusku di'e > > You are not taking > > into account that {e} has a scope of its own as well. When you > > split {paroi ko'a e ko'e} into {paroi ko'a ije paroi ko'e}, you're > > saying that {e} has scope over {paroi}. If {paroi} had scope over > > {e} you could not make the expansion. Expanding {e} is equivalent > > to exporting {ro} to the prenex. > >Where's the book say that? And strictly speaking btw, since the >claims of pavdei and reldei aren't related (e instead of jo'u) the >scoping of quantifiers from the first one won't change the meaning. >I don't think it makes sense to talk about quantifier scope for >{e}, which has no quantifiers. Whether the book says it or not in so many words, {e} does have scope. Consider {naku ko'a e ko'e broda}. You can't expand this to {naku ko'a broda ije naku ko'a brode}, precisely because {e} does not have scope over {naku}. But you can expand {ko'a e ko'e naku broda} to {ko'a naku broda ije ko'e naku broda}, because in this case {e} does have scope over {naku}. The relation between {e} and {ro} is not something I'm postulating for Lojban, it is something that is there as part of their logical meanings. mu'o mi'e xorxes _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Home Selling? Try Us! http://us.click.yahoo.com/QrPZMC/iTmEAA/MVfIAA/GSaulB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe, send mail to lojban-unsubscribe@onelist.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/