From sentto-44114-15376-1031023143-lojban-in=lojban.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Mon Sep 02 20:19:37 2002 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Mon, 02 Sep 2002 20:19:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from n19.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.66.74]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.05) id 17m4E3-0001FB-00 for lojban-in@lojban.org; Mon, 02 Sep 2002 20:19:35 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-44114-15376-1031023143-lojban-in=lojban.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.197] by n19.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 03 Sep 2002 03:19:03 -0000 X-Sender: opoudjis@optushome.com.au X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_0_1); 3 Sep 2002 03:19:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 49044 invoked from network); 3 Sep 2002 03:19:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 3 Sep 2002 03:19:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO cygnus.its.unimelb.EDU.AU) (128.250.20.112) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Sep 2002 03:19:03 -0000 Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON by SMTP.UNIMELB.EDU.AU (PMDF V5.2-29 #46888) id <01KM2D7SKCS0910BB2@SMTP.UNIMELB.EDU.AU> for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 3 Sep 2002 13:19:01 +1000 Received: from [128.250.86.21] (porchermac.language.unimelb.edu.au [128.250.86.21]) by SMTP.UNIMELB.EDU.AU (PMDF V5.2-29 #46888) with ESMTP id <01KM2D7S6TJW8ZRZ98@SMTP.UNIMELB.EDU.AU> for lojban@yahoogroups.com; Tue, 03 Sep 2002 13:19:01 +1000 X-Sender: opoudjis@mail.optushome.com.au To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Message-id: From: Nick Nicholas X-Yahoo-Profile: opoudjis MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list lojban@yahoogroups.com; contact lojban-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list lojban@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk Date: Tue, 03 Sep 2002 13:18:54 +1000 Subject: [lojban] Re: pronunciation guide for lessons Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 906 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: opoudjis@optushome.com.au Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list cu'u la .aulun. >yet these IMHO are subtleties to be neglected >for our purposes: only Wade-Giles mainly pays attention to the fact that in >Putonghua the consonants [b], [d], [g] are unvoiced (there are hardly voiced >sounds anyway!). reading between the lines (same goes for Jorge's response on the Wiki): the point should be that I establish a contrast, any contrast, in the languages, rather than reproduce the Lojban phonemes? i.e. p vs. b for Mandarin, as opposed to p (or b) vs. "does not exist"? Or am I overgeneralising? -- **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** * Dr Nick Nicholas, Linguistics/French & Italian nickn@unimelb.edu.au * University of Melbourne, Australia http://www.opoudjis.net * "Eschewing obfuscatory verbosity of locutional rendering, the * circumscriptional appelations are excised." --- W. Mann & S. Thompson, * _Rhetorical Structure Theory: A Theory of Text Organisation_, 1987. * **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> 4 DVDs Free +s&p Join Now http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/MVfIAA/GSaulB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe, send mail to lojban-unsubscribe@onelist.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/