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From: "And Rosta" <a.rosta@lycos.co.uk>
To: <lojban-list@lojban.org>
Subject: [lojban] Re: x1 is of type x2
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 02:02:23 +0100
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Jordan:
> On Tue, Oct 15, 2002 at 09:55:26PM +0200, Adam Raizen wrote:
> > la djorden cusku di'e
> > 
> > >  mi tavla tai lo'e gerku
> > >  I talk like a dog
> > >
> > >  mi tavla sekai leka ce'u jai fenki
> > >  My talking exhibits the quality of it being frenzied
> > >  I talk crazily
> > 
> > In both cases the tag modifies the whole bridi, so the first sentence
> 
> Right, but that's what I wanted it to do.
> 
> > is something like 'My talking is like a dog.'  To get the English
> > gloss, I would use 'mi ne tai lo'e gerku cu tavla'.
> 
> I think yours says "I (who, btw, am like a dog (in some way)) talk".
> I accept 'My talking is like a dog.' as another possible gloss of
> "mi tavla tai lo'e gerku".  I was trying to word it in a more
> normal-ish english way though, which is "I talk like a dog".

I agree with your glossing. The question then is how to properly
render English "I talk like a dog". The germ of a solution lies
in the way "like" works like comparatives and coordination:

   John loves Mary like Sue
   = 1. John loves Mary like John loves Sue.
     2. John loves Mary like Sue loves Mary.

cf. the parallel ambiguity of:

   John loves Mary more than Sue.
   John loves Mary, and Sue too.

"Like" can also mean "as if", "as though":
   John talks like a dog.
   John talks as if/though he were a dog.

Some examples:

  you need not eat as if you were going to eat it all.  
  (= "you need not eat in the way that you would eat if you
     were going to eat it all")

  You behave as if you were married to her already.  
  (= "you behave in the way that you would behave if you
     were married to her already")

  You look as if your name was Ernest.  
  (= "you look how you would look if your name was Ernest")

  you talk exactly as if you were a dentist
  (= "you talk how you would talk if you were a dentist")

This message is a bit technical, but I haven't sent it to
Jboske, because I know you don't subscribe.

--And.