From sentto-44114-17019-1036698025-lojban-in=lojban.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Thu Nov 07 13:55:02 2002 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Thu, 07 Nov 2002 13:55:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from n21.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.66.77]) by digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.05) id 189uc6-0006d4-01 for lojban-in@lojban.org; Thu, 07 Nov 2002 13:54:58 -0800 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-44114-17019-1036698025-lojban-in=lojban.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.98] by n21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Nov 2002 19:40:25 -0000 X-Sender: jjllambias@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 7 Nov 2002 19:40:24 -0000 Received: (qmail 97961 invoked from network); 7 Nov 2002 19:40:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Nov 2002 19:40:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO hotmail.com) (216.33.241.44) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Nov 2002 19:40:24 -0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 7 Nov 2002 11:40:24 -0800 Received: from 200.49.74.2 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 07 Nov 2002 19:40:24 GMT To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Bcc: Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Nov 2002 19:40:24.0728 (UTC) FILETIME=[8446D980:01C28695] From: "Jorge Llambias" X-Originating-IP: [200.49.74.2] X-Yahoo-Profile: jjllambias2000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list lojban@yahoogroups.com; contact lojban-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list lojban@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 19:40:24 +0000 Subject: [lojban] Re: importing ro Content-Type: text/plain X-archive-position: 2495 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jjllambias@hotmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list la pycyn cusku di'e ><< >You are using the set (A+E-I+O-) >for the forms {Q broda cu brode}. > >> >Yes, the traditional set from Logic since Aristotle (with occasional >aberrations). > ><< >I prefer (A-E-I+O+) for those forms, which give the rules: >    ro <=> no naku <=> naku su'o naku <=> naku me'i >and, when there is a guarantee that the subject term is non-empty, >    ro => su'o >    no => me'i > >> >The most famous apparent aberration, but, as it turns out, not one at all, >since it is not actually about {ro broda cu brode} and the like at all but >about {ro da ...}, where {ro} is just A+ and {su'o} I+ and therefore (if >they occcur) E and O are both -. The quantifiers in your system do not >carry >over to the variable cases (except, of course, that work as long as the >universe is non-empty). They certainly do carry over to the variable cases, even in the empty universe case. {ro da broda} is tautologically true in an empty universe in my system, just like {me'iro da broda} is tautologically true in your system, but false in mine. >The middle equivalence and the peripheral one hold >for both systems, of course (they are just contadiction). the first and >third have a long history (obversion) but have always been (quite >reasonably) >suspect. Since I can get any of them I I really need it, I am for sticking >wiht the classics and the simplest system for covering all cases. I think (A-E-I+O+) is simpler, and I can get all cases as well, of course. mu'o mi'e xorxes _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail To unsubscribe, send mail to lojban-unsubscribe@onelist.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/