From sentto-44114-17028-1036711509-lojban-in=lojban.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Thu Nov 07 15:38:07 2002 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Thu, 07 Nov 2002 15:38:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from n39.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.66.107]) by digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.05) id 189wDs-0004nR-01 for lojban-in@lojban.org; Thu, 07 Nov 2002 15:38:04 -0800 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-44114-17028-1036711509-lojban-in=lojban.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.198] by n39.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 07 Nov 2002 23:25:09 -0000 X-Sender: a.rosta@lycos.co.uk X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 7 Nov 2002 23:25:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 91563 invoked from network); 7 Nov 2002 23:25:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 7 Nov 2002 23:25:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mrin01.st1.spray.net) (212.78.193.7) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Nov 2002 23:25:08 -0000 Received: from lmin01.st1.spray.net (lmin01.st1.spray.net [212.78.202.101]) by mrin01.st1.spray.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C7201BEF61 for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 00:25:07 +0100 (CET) Received: from oemcomputer (host213-121-69-236.surfport24.v21.co.uk [213.121.69.236]) by lmin01.st1.spray.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C4831D44C for ; Fri, 8 Nov 2002 00:25:06 +0100 (MET) To: Message-ID: X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 From: "And Rosta" X-Yahoo-Profile: andjamin MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list lojban@yahoogroups.com; contact lojban-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list lojban@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 23:26:57 -0000 Subject: [lojban] Re: importing ro Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 2506 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: a.rosta@lycos.co.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list Adam: > la .and. cusku di'e > > > 2. The universe is not empty > > I don't accept this unless you add it as an axiom to your system. Note > (from > http://www.cgl.uwaterloo.ca/~wbcowan/teaching/cs24 > 6/s97/notes/lect07.html): > > "Instantiation: ForAll x: Px => There exists x: Px as long as the > universe is not empty." > > and > > "Note the important role played by the empty universe. (ForAll x: > Fx is true for any F if the universe is empty.)" > > So it's not obvious that the *only* possibility in logic is that AxFx > -> ExFx on its own, without the additional postulate of a non-empty > universe That's why I listed (2) as something we can agree on. Or at least we can agree on it enough that the issue of import dies as a bone of contention. --And. To unsubscribe, send mail to lojban-unsubscribe@onelist.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/