From sentto-44114-17356-1038787472-lojban-in=lojban.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sun Dec 01 16:06:15 2002 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Sun, 01 Dec 2002 16:06:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from n26.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.66.82]) by digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.05) id 18Ie6C-0000PT-01 for lojban-in@lojban.org; Sun, 01 Dec 2002 16:06:08 -0800 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-44114-17356-1038787472-lojban-in=lojban.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.201] by n26.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 02 Dec 2002 00:05:13 -0000 X-Sender: lojbab@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 2 Dec 2002 00:04:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 238 invoked from network); 2 Dec 2002 00:04:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 2 Dec 2002 00:04:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO lakemtao02.cox.net) (68.1.17.243) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Dec 2002 00:04:32 -0000 Received: from lojban.lojban.org ([68.100.206.153]) by lakemtao02.cox.net (InterMail vM.5.01.04.05 201-253-122-122-105-20011231) with ESMTP id <20021202000430.PGZD2203.lakemtao02.cox.net@lojban.lojban.org> for ; Sun, 1 Dec 2002 19:04:30 -0500 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20021201184512.0312eb30@pop.east.cox.net> X-Sender: rlechevalier@pop.east.cox.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 To: lojban@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <1038785193.18814.9.camel@norpan.org> From: Robert LeChevalier X-Yahoo-Profile: lojbab MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list lojban@yahoogroups.com; contact lojban-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list lojban@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk Date: Sun, 01 Dec 2002 18:57:14 -0500 Subject: [lojban] Re: Some concerns from a Lojban beginner Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis X-archive-position: 2845 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: lojbab@lojban.org Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list At 12:26 AM 12/2/02 +0100, Martin Norbäck wrote: >So, anyone wanting to have a way to incorporate Loglan words into >Lojban, please go ahead, but I won't be able to read them, I am not >interested in learning double sets of words. > >Changing the baseline words, the 1300 gismu, is also probably a >no-option. No one expects any Lojbanist to learn any Loglan words. The toggle is primarily to enable a one-way transition from TLI Loglan to Lojban. It is one way, because Lojban is by far the better language, with the more active community; there are no advantages in moving the other way. >I thinks it's better to keep the languages separate and let people use >the one they think is better. The main purpose of the toggle/incorporation proposal is that it encourages TLI Loglanists to transition to Lojban. Depending on how they implement the toggle and transition dialect, they can start using Lojban style and syntax, then start using Lojban cmavo, and then start using Lojban vocabulary as they learn it. It makes switching that much less painful. More importantly, it de facto ends TLI Loglan as a separate language without playing things out; even today there are people trying to revive Volapu:k which was effectively dead the day that Zamenhof published the Esperanto Fundamento. This makes it that much harder for those who would try to continue it as a rival to Lojban, forcing every newcomer to make a relatively uninformed choice between the two versions. >By the way, if anyone has a good method for learning words, let me know! LogFlash embodies the most successful algorithm for learning words by study that we've ever found, but it isn't "fun" for most people. Other than that, trying to write in Lojban is the only way to really master the vocabulary. lojbab -- lojbab lojbab@lojban.org Bob LeChevalier, President, The Logical Language Group, Inc. 2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031-1303 USA 703-385-0273 Artificial language Loglan/Lojban: http://www.lojban.org To unsubscribe, send mail to lojban-unsubscribe@onelist.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/