From sentto-44114-17617-1039163332-lojban-in=lojban.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Fri Dec 06 01:29:45 2002 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Fri, 06 Dec 2002 01:29:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from n17.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.66.72]) by digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.05) id 18KEnl-0007w9-01 for lojban-in@lojban.org; Fri, 06 Dec 2002 01:29:41 -0800 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-44114-17617-1039163332-lojban-in=lojban.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.201] by n17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Dec 2002 08:28:52 -0000 X-Sender: opoudjis@optushome.com.au X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 6 Dec 2002 08:28:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 46080 invoked from network); 6 Dec 2002 08:28:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Dec 2002 08:28:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail023.syd.optusnet.com.au) (210.49.20.162) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Dec 2002 08:28:51 -0000 Received: from optushome.com.au (c17180.brasd1.vic.optusnet.com.au [210.49.155.40]) by mail023.syd.optusnet.com.au (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id gB68Soi17876 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 2002 19:28:50 +1100 To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.548) From: Nick Nicholas X-Yahoo-Profile: opoudjis MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list lojban@yahoogroups.com; contact lojban-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list lojban@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 19:28:49 +1100 Subject: [lojban] Re: Baseline statement Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 3128 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: opoudjis@optushome.com.au Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 20:48:30 -0500 From: Robert LeChevalier Subject: Re: Baseline statement Pointing out that getting special meetings to happen is difficult is not part of the solution, it's part of the precipitate. If this means the next members meeting needs to rejig the bylaws, well then, it'll rejig the bylaws. As has been promised to happen for the past decade. I think the notion that a Loglan transliteration (described as 'oddball' in CLL!) constrains Lojban phonotactics is ludicrous. Saying that anything oddball mentioned in CLL is more authoritative than anything oddball not in CLL (for example, that we are obliged to follow Eric Raymond's Tengwar rather than elrond's) is not much less ludicrous. I know what Lojban phonology is, and it is that the sequence VV is distinct from V'V: apostrophe is a phoneme, and comma isn't. That's true of .i'o and .io, and I see nothing in the phonology to say it's not true of ti'o and tio. Besides, now that I've read the blasted thing, John had anticipated this anyway: Lojban sruti'o = Loglan sruti,o Lojban srutio = Loglan srutio The comma is a phoneme in Loglan transliteration, which does much of the work of the Lojban apostrophe. Therefore, sruti'o and srutio are distinct in Lojban, and this is not annulled in the Loglan transliteration, which also renders them distinctly. Therefore the difference between the two remains legit. Goddammit. All this rigmarole because you misremembered the transliteration. For shame. ### ki egeire arga ta sthqia ta qlimmena;#Nick Nicholas, French/Italian san ahdoni pou se nuxtia anoijiata # University of Melbourne thn wra pou kelahda epnixth, wimena! # nickn@unimelb.edu.au stis murwdies kai st' anqismena bata.# http://www.opoudjis.net -- N. Kazantzakhs, Tertsines: Xristos# To unsubscribe, send mail to lojban-unsubscribe@onelist.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/