From a.rosta@lycos.co.uk Fri Dec 06 16:47:42 2002
Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Fri, 06 Dec 2002 16:47:42 -0800 (PST)
Received: from lmsmtp03.st1.spray.net ([212.78.202.113])
	by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05)
	id 18KT86-0005EE-00
	for lojban-list@lojban.org; Fri, 06 Dec 2002 16:47:38 -0800
Received: from oemcomputer (host81-7-63-172.surfport24.v21.co.uk [81.7.63.172])
	by lmsmtp03.st1.spray.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6A083D109
	for <lojban-list@lojban.org>; Sat,  7 Dec 2002 01:47:04 +0100 (MET)
From: "And Rosta" <a.rosta@lycos.co.uk>
To: <lojban-list@lojban.org>
Subject: [lojban] Re: penguins, neologisms, cratylism (was: RE: penguins
Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 00:49:15 -0000
Message-ID: <LPBBJKMNINKHACNDIIGMIEPCHAAA.a.rosta@lycos.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0)
In-Reply-To: <02120612362504.02354@neofelis>
X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200
Importance: Normal
X-archive-position: 3175
X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0
Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org
Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org
X-original-sender: a.rosta@lycos.co.uk
Precedence: bulk
Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org
X-list: lojban-list

pier:
> On Thursday 05 December 2002 18:58, And Rosta wrote:
> > I know why you think that; there are sound rational grounds
> >
> > But {sfenisku} was my favourite. Long-form fuhivla do indeed seem
> > too clunky, while lujvo can seem blandly homogeneous and lacking
> > in distinctiveness, especially in what one might call 'cratylism',
> > the property of form mystically embodying meaning. I've there's
> > one person whose judgement I'd trust on neologisms, it would be
> > Michael Helsem
>
> But if lo sfenisku is a penguin, what is lo nisku?

If we are asking questions like these, then maybe Lojban really is
moving from a mere design to a proper language that we explore
& discover. Anyway, {sfenisku} = "surface nisku" = penguin. What
do penguins have to do with surfaces? Easy -- they stay on it,
if it is the surface of land/ice -- they don't fly -- or they
dive beneath it if it is the surface of water. So a nisku is some
kind of bird, a class that includes penguins, such that penguins
are distinctive within that class in regard to their special
connection with surfaces.

Perhaps I should add {nisku} to the list of unofficial gismu?

> Between {sfeniku} and {sfenisu}, I think I prefer {sfenisu}, as there is some
> Greek root -sphenic which I think means "wedgelike" (I've actually seen
> "sphenic" only in "tribosphenic", which is a type of molar)

I don't have access to an etymology of _spheniscus/spheniskos_, but
it at least looks like it would mean "little wedge, wedgelet". But
I don't see why that would lead us to prefer {sfenisu} over {sfeniku}.

--And.