From raganok@intrex.net Sat Dec 07 12:43:02 2002
Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Sat, 07 Dec 2002 12:43:02 -0800 (PST)
Received: from smtp.intrex.net ([209.42.192.250])
	by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.05)
	id 18Klms-0007qy-00
	for lojban-list@lojban.org; Sat, 07 Dec 2002 12:42:58 -0800
Received: from Craig [209.42.200.12] by smtp.intrex.net
  (SMTPD32-5.05) id AD57676014A; Sat, 07 Dec 2002 15:43:03 -0500
From: "Craig" <raganok@intrex.net>
To: <lojban-list@lojban.org>
Subject: [lojban] Re: Aesthetics
Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 15:42:54 -0500
Message-ID: <LPBBLNNHBOGBGAINBIEFMEEFCNAA.raganok@intrex.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0)
In-Reply-To: <20021207153048.M91480-100000@granite.thestonecutters.net>
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300
Importance: Normal
X-Declude-Sender: raganok@intrex.net [209.42.200.12]
X-Note: Total weight is 0. Whitelisted
X-archive-position: 3234
X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0
Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org
Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org
X-original-sender: raganok@intrex.net
Precedence: bulk
Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org
X-list: lojban-list

>> >Why is [h] not an optimal pronunciation for '?  (Yes I know the
>> >title of the thread is 'aesthetics', but you seem to be implying
>> >there's some kind of reason).
>>
>> Because there is a greater phonic contrast between [T] and [f] or [s]
than
>> between [h] and [x].

>Not when [x] is spoken by someone who can do it properly.

I can do it properly, but I still hear it as kind of h-like - even out of
native German and Spanish speakers.

>> I use [T], but only because I can't get the ll sound.

>I assume that [T] means thorn?

Yes.