From sentto-44114-17998-1039729919-lojban-in=lojban.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Thu Dec 12 13:52:39 2002 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Thu, 12 Dec 2002 13:52:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from n19.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.66.74]) by digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.05) id 18MbFz-00047x-01 for lojban-in@lojban.org; Thu, 12 Dec 2002 13:52:35 -0800 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-44114-17998-1039729919-lojban-in=lojban.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.196] by n19.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Dec 2002 21:51:59 -0000 X-Sender: a.rosta@lycos.co.uk X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 12 Dec 2002 21:51:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 3588 invoked from network); 12 Dec 2002 21:51:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 12 Dec 2002 21:51:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO lmsmtp02.st1.spray.net) (212.78.202.112) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Dec 2002 21:51:58 -0000 Received: from oemcomputer (host81-7-57-132.surfport24.v21.co.uk [81.7.57.132]) by lmsmtp02.st1.spray.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B6DE5B686 for ; Thu, 12 Dec 2002 22:51:56 +0100 (MET) To: Message-ID: X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Importance: Normal From: "And Rosta" X-Yahoo-Profile: andjamin MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list lojban@yahoogroups.com; contact lojban-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list lojban@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 21:51:54 -0000 Subject: [lojban] Re: Subject: g/k (was: RE: Re: More stuff Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 3509 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: a.rosta@lycos.co.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list Nick: > Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 15:03:20 -0000 > From: "And Rosta" > Subject: g/k (was: RE: Re: More stuff > > > English is another, of course. I formerly rendered /g/:/k/ English- > > style as [k]:[kh], but then I had a terrible time understanding Nick > > who, following the official line, said [g]:[k]; I heard all his > > /p, t, k/ as /b, d, g/ > > And of course, you know why I did so, right? Not official line; but > Modern Greek, which has no aspiration My understanding was that your being a native speaker Greek *enabled* you to do it, but that you did it because it is the official line. You don't have problems with aspirating stops when speaking English. > Ivan Derzhanski pronounces all umpteen languages he speaks like > Bulgarian :-) ; I pronounce da'are like Greek, and my German is painful > indeed. The da'apamoi is Klingon, which I actually pronounce New > Zealandish --- I overcentralise the lax vowels. (No lax vowels in > Greek, y'see...) Is that because Greek is your primary language, or because it is your prototype for a foreign language? I tend to pronounce everything but English as if it were Italian, because it is my model for speaking a foreign language. > > So now I try to say [g]:[kh] -- to my ears, > > the /b, d, g/ come out sounding very French > > I'm behind on this: how do you mean? Are you talking about voicing the > d's in all contexts, or something else? Length? If I said 'xod' in my English accent, the /d/ would either be completely voiceless or else only voiced at the beginning. It sounds French when I say it because the voicing lasts all the way through; almost as if, to English ears, I was saying 'xodder/xodda'. --And. To unsubscribe, send mail to lojban-unsubscribe@onelist.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/