From sentto-44114-18332-1043111418-lojban-in=lojban.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Mon Jan 20 17:10:58 2003 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Mon, 20 Jan 2003 17:10:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from n5.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.66.89]) by digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.05) id 18amwG-0003zZ-01 for lojban-in@lojban.org; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 17:10:52 -0800 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-44114-18332-1043111418-lojban-in=lojban.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.196] by n5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Jan 2003 01:10:18 -0000 X-Sender: ragnarok@pobox.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_0); 21 Jan 2003 01:10:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 93714 invoked from network); 21 Jan 2003 01:10:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Jan 2003 01:10:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO smtp.intrex.net) (209.42.192.250) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Jan 2003 01:10:17 -0000 Received: from craig [209.42.200.67] by smtp.intrex.net (SMTPD32-5.05) id ADF53410224; Mon, 20 Jan 2003 20:10:13 -0500 To: Message-ID: X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <73E93256-2C9E-11D7-B599-000393629ED4@uic.edu> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 X-Declude-Sender: ragnarok@pobox.com [209.42.200.67] X-Note: Total weight is 0. Whitelisted From: "Craig" X-Yahoo-Profile: kreig_daniyl MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list lojban@yahoogroups.com; contact lojban-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list lojban@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 20:10:13 -0500 Subject: [lojban] Re: By the way < tangent? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 3845 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: ragnarok@pobox.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list But tangent as in a tangent line is very different from tangent as in sin/cos. That's what the gismu is, and has nothing to do with ta'o. -----Original Message----- From: Steven Belknap [mailto:sbelknap@UIC.EDU] Sent: Monday, January 20, 2003 12:42 PM To: Robert LeChevalier Cc: lojban@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] By the way < tangent? I am skeptical about this being malglico. One has to have *some* metaphor, and any particular metaphor is likely to be closer to some culture's existing than another's. I rather like the idea of building lojban combining and combination words from gismu which exist in *no* existing culture but which do suggest the meaning in a clear way. Doing this creates "strangeness" but preserves "meaningfulness". Not always possible though. The idea of tangentiality is an extrapolation from geometry. That is culturally neutral enough for me, despite the alleged malglico of the English referent. On Sunday, January 19, 2003, at 11:09 PM, Robert LeChevalier wrote: > At 10:22 PM 1/19/03 -0600, Steven Belknap wrote: >> consider the English word "tangentially" >> >> On Sunday, January 19, 2003, at 10:03 PM, Pierre Abbat wrote: >> >>> Chapter 13 lists the cmavo {ta'o} "by the way" as coming from >>> {tanjo}, >>> which >>> is the word for a trigonometric function (li pa tanjo lo julra'o be >>> li >>> vomu). >>> What's the connection? Also, is {zu'u} derived from {zunle}? > > The cmavo do sometimes come from malglico sound-alikes. It was at the > time > a memory hook for the all-English speakers learning the language, with > the > malglicoism (the one Steven suggests was indeed what we had in mind) so > obvious that I wasn't afraid that people would think that ta'o had to > do > with trig functions. The alternative was pretty much random selection > from > a large set of available cmavo, and we tried to avoid randomness. If > a tie > to zunle is not noted in the list, then there probably was no tie, and > it > was chosen either randomly or for contrast with some other word we had > in mind. > > lojbab > > -- > lojbab lojbab@lojban.org > Bob LeChevalier, President, The Logical Language Group, Inc. > 2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031-1303 USA > 703-385-0273 > Artificial language Loglan/Lojban: > http://www.lojban.org > > > > To unsubscribe, send mail to lojban-unsubscribe@onelist.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > To unsubscribe, send mail to lojban-unsubscribe@onelist.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ To unsubscribe, send mail to lojban-unsubscribe@onelist.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/