From sentto-44114-18806-1046738147-lojban-in=lojban.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Mon Mar 03 16:36:44 2003 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Mon, 03 Mar 2003 16:36:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from n37.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.66.105]) by digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 18q0QB-0003eh-00 for lojban-in@lojban.org; Mon, 03 Mar 2003 16:36:39 -0800 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-44114-18806-1046738147-lojban-in=lojban.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.194] by n37.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Mar 2003 00:35:47 -0000 X-Sender: lojbab@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_2_3_4); 4 Mar 2003 00:35:47 -0000 Received: (qmail 79502 invoked from network); 4 Mar 2003 00:35:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 4 Mar 2003 00:35:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO lakemtao01.cox.net) (68.1.17.244) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Mar 2003 00:35:47 -0000 Received: from lojban.lojban.org ([68.100.92.1]) by lakemtao01.cox.net (InterMail vM.5.01.04.05 201-253-122-122-105-20011231) with ESMTP id <20030304003545.XINN18293.lakemtao01.cox.net@lojban.lojban.org> for ; Mon, 3 Mar 2003 19:35:45 -0500 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20030303192157.036bea20@pop.east.cox.net> X-Sender: rlechevalier@pop.east.cox.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 To: In-Reply-To: <200303031408.25226.phma@webjockey.net> References: From: Robert LeChevalier X-Yahoo-Profile: lojbab MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list lojban@yahoogroups.com; contact lojban-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list lojban@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 19:31:56 -0500 Subject: [lojban] Re: gismu etymology Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 4317 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: lojbab@lojban.org Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list At 02:08 PM 3/3/03 +0100, Pierre Abbat wrote: >On Monday 03 March 2003 12:56, Craig wrote: > > >> Is there data for this stuff somewhere? > > > > > >The nitty-gritty details are at > > > > http://www.lojban.org/files/etymology/finprims > > > > This puzzles me. The Spanish glosses are sometimes really weird. eg, > > pont - puente > > kord - cuerda > > port - puerta > > > > This 'ue' does represent an original /O/, but it contrasts with /o/. It is > > also not pronounced o anywhere, except maybe portugal - and that is > > generally not thought of as the same language. What happened? > >Some words have a regular alternation between "ue" and "o" depending on >stress: oler:huele; contar:cuente. Perhaps the "o"-form is the stem of a >longer derived word. It was because "ue" in Spanish is almost always etymologically a sound change from Latin "o", so that we are picking up a root supposedly recognizable in all Romance languages, and often English as well. This was partly to strengthen the influence of Spanish Consider door English "dor", Spanish "puert-". Spanish being less weighted than English and Chinese (and Hindi) it probably would have gotten no contribution into the resulting word. Using "port-", it reinforces the English, making sure the "or" is there, and provided the opportunity to get the p or the t in the word (which it ultimately did not). We had a whole set of tables on how optimally to convert each language to Lojban phonemes systematically. I think the Spanish rules were close to what were devised by Chuck Barton (who was a polyglot linguist for the Navy including Spanish) for JCB back in the 1970s. lojbab -- lojbab lojbab@lojban.org Bob LeChevalier, President, The Logical Language Group, Inc. 2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031-1303 USA 703-385-0273 Artificial language Loglan/Lojban: http://www.lojban.org ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> DVD Rentals with No Late Fees - Try Netflix for FREE! http://us.click.yahoo.com/abvVKB/pEZFAA/46VHAA/GSaulB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe, send mail to lojban-unsubscribe@onelist.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/