From lojbab@lojban.org Wed May 28 08:35:12 2003 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Wed, 28 May 2003 08:35:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lakemtao04.cox.net ([68.1.17.241]) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19L2x8-0001Vy-00 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Wed, 28 May 2003 08:34:58 -0700 Received: from bob.lojban.org ([68.100.92.1]) by lakemtao04.cox.net (InterMail vM.5.01.04.05 201-253-122-122-105-20011231) with ESMTP id <20030528153428.RRCY13930.lakemtao04.cox.net@bob.lojban.org> for ; Wed, 28 May 2003 11:34:28 -0400 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20030528112312.04028710@pop.east.cox.net> X-Sender: rlechevalier@pop.east.cox.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 11:33:54 -0400 To: From: Robert LeChevalier Subject: [lojban] Re: antiblotation (was: RE: taksi In-Reply-To: References: <3ED4A173.32131.8A18D3@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-archive-position: 5483 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: lojbab@lojban.org Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list At 01:58 PM 5/28/03 +0100, And Rosta wrote: >filip: > > On 28 May 2003 at 0:43, jjllambias2000 wrote: > > > > > The place structure for taksi is perhaps the least obvious of the > > > three, but almost certainly I would bet it has the passengers/cargo in > > > x2. > > > > Probably also a place for area of operation (most taxis I know operate > > only in one city, or in a defined rural area) > > > > Not so sure about driver or fare > >For any place structure: > >Step 1. >Draw up a list of candidate places. There will be infinitely many >to select from, but make sure they include those things that might >be difficult to express by means of other locutions. > >Step 2. >For each candidate place, check whether you really want to define (e.g.) >taksi so that something is not a taksi if there is no passenger, or >no area of operation, or no driver, or no fare. Discard any candidates >that are thus inessential. This avoids making the brivla mean something >other than what was intended. Slight caveat here: remember that Lojban predicates are "tenseless". Thus the question is not whether it is a marcrtaxi if it doesn't have a passenger, or if it isn't currently driven, or if there is no fare being charged. The question is whether it is a marcrtaxi if it NEVER has those things all at one time. I think that a marcrtaxi must have at some time a driver and passenger(s). If there is no fare, then the word encompasses both taxi and chauffeur, which sounds more like something we would expect of a lujvo than a fu'ivla. A word specific to the English concept of taxi probably needs a fare/payment place. >Step 3. >Get rid of any remaining candidates that could easily be expressed by >other means and that don't follow established patterns among the place >structures of other brivla. This avoids making the place structure >unnecessarily hard to learn. Other than that caveat, I second Cowan's approval of this description. -- lojbab lojbab@lojban.org Bob LeChevalier, President, The Logical Language Group, Inc. 2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031-1303 USA 703-385-0273 Artificial language Loglan/Lojban: http://www.lojban.org