From sentto-44114-20552-1061732512-lojban-in=lojban.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sun Aug 24 06:43:05 2003 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Sun, 24 Aug 2003 06:43:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from n16.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.66.71]) by digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 19qv8Y-00073b-01 for lojban-in@lojban.org; Sun, 24 Aug 2003 06:42:30 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-44114-20552-1061732512-lojban-in=lojban.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.159] by n16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Aug 2003 13:41:56 -0000 X-Sender: elrond@lrde.epita.fr X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 47937 invoked from network); 24 Aug 2003 13:41:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m19.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Aug 2003 13:41:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mallaury.noc.nerim.net) (62.4.17.100) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Aug 2003 13:41:50 -0000 Received: from imladris.lrde.epita.fr.xbsd.org (xbsd.org [80.65.225.119]) by mallaury.noc.nerim.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22C5D62D35 for ; Sun, 24 Aug 2003 15:41:39 +0200 (CEST) To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <87k793goks.fsf@imladris.lrde.epita.fr> User-Agent: Gnus/5.1001 (Gnus v5.10.1) XEmacs/21.4 (Rational FORTRAN, linux) X-eGroups-From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Rapha=EBl?= Poss From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Rapha=EBl?= Poss X-Yahoo-Profile: poss_r MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list lojban@yahoogroups.com; contact lojban-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list lojban@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2003 15:41:39 +0200 Subject: [lojban] Question about moi and its explanation in 'What is Lojban?' Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-archive-position: 6048 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: grey.havens@free.fr Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, I was browsing through the 'What is Lojban?' sections lately when I found the following : 'mi papamoi tavla do' -> 'I am the 11th talker to you' If I remember my Lojban lessons correctly, this gloss is wrong, because 'mi papamoi tavla do' is equivalent to 'mi do papamoi tavla' or 'do mi papamoi se tavla', which all mean something like : "you and I are both involved in a 11th tavla-relationship where I am the talker and you the listener". which cannot, IMHO, be interpreted as : "you're my 11th listener" =20 but instead as: "having been 10 previous talkings, we're both participating in the 11th". A studious Lojban learner probably can make the difference after some work with the language. At which point the initial wrongness of the gloss in 'What is Lojban?' can be observed as a forgivable error to make the gloss more easy to comprehend for a beginner (this is what I'm thinking). Now, the question is, how can one express the meaning of "I am the 11th talker to you" in Lojban ? Precisely, a sentence that states that "you being the listener for at least 11 times, I am in charge of talking the 11th" ? I tend to favor: mi papamoi tavla be do However, I'm not sure that sentence conveys the meaning I'm looking for. What do you think ? Regards,=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 --=20 . Rapha=EBl Poss . . _ - --------\ : EPITA CSI 2003 ICQ 1757157 | | EpX -- ACU -- Activ' GnuPG fp bda2eb602866390c7a7d : \------ - _ . . a13ad7c86dd33b72e72b ' --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQA/SMCY18ht0zty5ysRAv6jAKCwh17reDlZhvemNaB/CiwG8r7i/wCbB1Pw zp5zneNG7BzJdg6WTWqWKic= =nmA/ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=--