From sentto-44114-21086-1068124033-lojban-in=lojban.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Thu Nov 06 05:08:04 2003 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Thu, 06 Nov 2003 05:08:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from n13.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.66.68]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.22) id 1AHjrU-0007Q9-R2 for lojban-in@lojban.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 05:07:44 -0800 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-44114-21086-1068124033-lojban-in=lojban.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.96] by n13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 06 Nov 2003 13:07:13 -0000 X-Sender: cowan@mercury.ccil.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 52097 invoked from network); 6 Nov 2003 13:07:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 6 Nov 2003 13:07:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mercury.ccil.org) (192.190.237.100) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Nov 2003 13:07:12 -0000 Received: from cowan by mercury.ccil.org with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1AHjqu-000319-00; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 08:07:08 -0500 To: Jorge =?iso-8859-1?Q?Llamb=EDas?= Cc: lojban@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: <20031106130708.GE1461@mercury.ccil.org> References: <20031106124804.31680.qmail@web41903.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20031106124804.31680.qmail@web41903.mail.yahoo.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.28i X-eGroups-From: John Cowan From: John Cowan X-Originating-IP: 192.190.237.100 X-Yahoo-Profile: johnwcowan MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list lojban@yahoogroups.com; contact lojban-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list lojban@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 08:07:08 -0500 Subject: [lojban] Re: lluis's pronunciation Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 6583 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: cowan@ccil.org Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list Jorge Llamb?as scripsit: > I hear a regular trilled "r". I tend to prefer the flap rather than the > trill for Lojban (Spanish "r" rather than "rr"). CLL lists the trill > first among the permitted variants, but it says that in the case of "r" > all of the variations are equally acceptable. Yes, as is true for most of the other letters. However, my understanding of Spanish phonology is that initial "r", though so written, is typically rendered as a trill: certainly there is no opposition in initial position between "r" and "rr". > I don't hear ".ubu" for the fifth letter though. It sounds like > ".obu" again, while the other "u"s sound fine to me. I heard that also. In addition, "se cmene" and "te smuni" sound like "ze jmene" and "te zmuni" to me. Fortunately, "jmene" and "zmuni" cannot exist, but "ze" for "se" is more serious. It's important not to obliterate voicing distinctions anywhere in Lojban. -- John Cowan http://www.ccil.org/~cowan jcowan@reutershealth.com To say that Bilbo's breath was taken away is no description at all. There are no words left to express his staggerment, since Men changed the language that they learned of elves in the days when all the world was wonderful. --The Hobbit ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Rent DVDs Online - Over 14,500 titles. No Late Fees & Free Shipping. Try Netflix for FREE! http://us.click.yahoo.com/xlw.sC/XP.FAA/3jkFAA/GSaulB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe, send mail to lojban-unsubscribe@onelist.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/