From viric@vicerveza.homeunix.net Thu Nov 06 10:29:47 2003 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Thu, 06 Nov 2003 10:29:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from yuha.menta.net ([212.78.128.42]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.22) id 1AHosy-0004A7-I9 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2003 10:29:36 -0800 Received: from gibson.menta.net ([212.78.128.22]) by yuha.menta.net (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with ESMTP id HNY0RN02.R3M for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 19:30:59 +0100 Received: from vicerveza.atutiplen.net ([62.57.139.16]) by gibson.menta.net (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15 gibson Mar 14 2002 21:29:48) with ESMTP id HNY0UQ01.L4G for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 19:32:51 +0100 Received: from llimona (llimona [192.168.1.3]) by vicerveza.atutiplen.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E17D17D79 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 19:37:13 +0100 (CET) Received: by llimona (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 5DCFD1BF8B13; Thu, 6 Nov 2003 19:30:07 +0100 (CET) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 19:30:07 +0100 From: Llu'is Batlle i Rossell To: lojban list Subject: [lojban] Iberian v vs. b Message-ID: <20031106183007.GB3007@llimona.atutiplen.net> Mail-Followup-To: lojban list Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis X-archive-position: 6587 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: viric@vicerveza.homeunix.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list Well... I forgot posting something about "b" and "v". We (Spanish and Catalan speakers) don't really pronounce "v" different than "b". Well, some people in Valencian Contry (East of Spain) pronounce them different. Even thought, in old-spanish and old-catalan, "v" was pronounced like lojban "v". But xorxes noticed another problem: making "b" sound explosive. We only do that at the beginning of a word, or after a non-sounding consonant (maybe some more cases). Between vowels we pronounce what I call . Well, catalan papers about pronunciation use that nomenclature. It has the problem that that "b" isn't explosive, but it isn't fricative!! So it's not a "v". We're very used at using , so we always identify it with "b" (supposing we're pronouncing "v" correctly"). Maybe speakers of other languages find nearer to lojban "v" than lojban "b". I think that catalan and spanish (at least) phenomena only occurs in "b"... Anyway, the subject of this mail is "b" and "v". :) Bye!! I hope this information helps! -- "... el quid de la qüestió està en l'educació: en la filosofia didàctica, l'opció ignorància hauria d'existir: tu què vols ser? Jo, enginyer; jo, metge; jo, ignorant: és a dir, vull aprendre a viure però no vull saber-ho tot." -- Pau Riba, entrevista a "Paper de Vidre", núm. 5