From viric@vicerveza.homeunix.net Sat Nov 08 07:24:05 2003 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Sat, 08 Nov 2003 07:24:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from yuha.menta.net ([212.78.128.42]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.22) id 1AIUwQ-000084-Fm for lojban-list@lojban.org; Sat, 08 Nov 2003 07:23:58 -0800 Received: from gibson.menta.net ([212.78.128.22]) by yuha.menta.net (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with ESMTP id HO1HIM00.QSA for ; Sat, 8 Nov 2003 16:25:34 +0100 Received: from vicerveza.atutiplen.net ([62.57.139.16]) by gibson.menta.net (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15 gibson Mar 14 2002 21:29:48) with ESMTP id HO1HLO00.ZDT for ; Sat, 8 Nov 2003 16:27:24 +0100 Received: from llimona (llimona [192.168.1.3]) by vicerveza.atutiplen.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B92C180E6 for ; Sat, 8 Nov 2003 16:32:52 +0100 (CET) Received: by llimona (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 48D821BF8B13; Sat, 8 Nov 2003 16:24:56 +0100 (CET) Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2003 16:24:56 +0100 From: Llu'is Batlle i Rossell To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] Re: two 't' sounds Message-ID: <20031108152456.GA3368@llimona.atutiplen.net> Mail-Followup-To: lojban-list@lojban.org References: <10.37e4dfe4.2cde535c@wmconnect.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <10.37e4dfe4.2cde535c@wmconnect.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis X-archive-position: 6607 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: viric@vicerveza.homeunix.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list On Sat, Nov 08, 2003 at 09:10:36AM -0500, MorphemeAddict@wmconnect.com wrote: > > > there are two kinds of "t" (Russian have the two ones). One is like the > > spanish 't', and the other one is the English 't'. In russian, there are soft > > vowels, which soften the consonant just before the vowel. For example, "ye" > > vowel after a "t" ("tye"), is pronounced as a . But if > > you write "te", it's pronounced as . > > > russian does indeed have two 't' sounds: one hard and one soft (palatalized). > english 't' and spanish 't' are indeed different, but the difference is not > the same as the two russian sounds. and the quality of the russian 'e' sounds > does not change in open syllables - it's still the open 'e' sound, which is > also the sound i use in "stevo". :-) > [the vowel sound between two palatalized consonants in russian is 'fronted' > (i think that's the term). i.e. p'at' ('five') has /a/ as in 'cat', 'man', > 'attack'. if either or both of the consonants is hard, then the vowel remains > open as 'a' in the regular russian pronunciation of 'a'. with 'e', the result > is a sound much closer to the closed 'e' of italian (and maybe spanish next > to 's'), versus the normal open sound of 'get', 'gem', 'bet'.] > > stevo I agree about the comment about 'e'... Well, that's one thing I wanted to expose in the comment you replied to. :) And about Russian T.... I've just begun studying Russian now. I begun first year in October. :) It's hard for me to make soft (palatalized) consonants... and for me, russian soft 't' sounded like 't' in "tear" or "time". I see I have a lot to learn yet. :) Anyway... is that soft 't' accepted as lojban 't'? -- "... el quid de la qüestió està en l'educació: en la filosofia didàctica, l'opció ignorància hauria d'existir: tu què vols ser? Jo, enginyer; jo, metge; jo, ignorant: és a dir, vull aprendre a viure però no vull saber-ho tot." -- Pau Riba, entrevista a "Paper de Vidre", núm. 5