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From: Jorge "Llambías" <jjllambias2000@yahoo.com.ar>
Subject: [lojban] Re: predict, foretell, foreknowledge, prognosis,  anticipation
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--- Bob LeChevalier <lojbab@lojban.org> wrote:
> I think jvajvo would suggest purju'o (though I think that pruju'o scores 
> higher)
> x1p precedes x2p
> x1d knows x2d ...
> x1d knows x2d=x2p ... at (earlier) time/event x1p
> 
> with
> x1b is after x2b
> we end up with
> x1d knows x2d=x1p ... at (earlier) time/event x2p
> which seems quite backwards.  The knowledge, which is the focus of the 
> bridi, occurs *before* the event.

Yes, but jvajvo allows also {x1 djuno x2 boi x3 poi purci}. 
So {purju'o}/{pruju'o} as a je-lujvo or {bavju'o} as a be-lujvo
will both work.

In any case, I suppose {purci} does make the better calque for
all those words that start with pre- fore- and similar:
precooked, prepaid, presuppose, predate, forewarn, etc.

> Another approach would be junli'e

x2 of junli'e would be a second knower, right?

> and a third approach would spurn the lujvo entirely, and express 
> foreknowledge as "djuno ledu'u pu'o fasnu"; you are knowing the 
> anticipation of the event (and anticipating the aftermath of an event 
> becomes real fun).

{djuno le du'u ba fasnu} seems more like it. The pu'o stage can be
in the past. With {pu'o} we get "I know it was/is/will be about 
to happen", with {ba} we get "I know it will happen". That's the
one that gives {bavju'o}.

But in general it is useful to have a more or less regular way of 
forming pre- words.

> If we had rafsi for pu'o and ba'o that would make the lujvo easier, but I 
> admit that at the time we discussed rafsi, I figured that anything pu'o 
> would use purci and ba'o would use balvi just as the cmavo themselves were 
> derived from those words.  That was before I took jvajvo analysis seriously.

Whatever their derivation, {ba'o} is closest to {mulno}, "completed",
not much related to the future. For {pu'o} I have not yet found
a satisfying lujvo. In jbovlaste I used {cfapru}, {purci lo nu cfari},
"x1 is before starting".

mu'o mi'e xorxes

 

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