From sentto-44114-21439-1073680173-lojban-in=lojban.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Fri Jan 09 12:30:11 2004 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Fri, 09 Jan 2004 12:30:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from n34.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.66.102]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.30) id 1Af3Ge-0000vP-Vh for lojban-in@lojban.org; Fri, 09 Jan 2004 12:30:05 -0800 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-44114-21439-1073680173-lojban-in=lojban.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.96] by n34.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jan 2004 20:29:34 -0000 X-Sender: hfroark@bigmailbox.net X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 80221 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2004 20:29:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m13.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jan 2004 20:29:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n24.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.80) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jan 2004 20:29:32 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.252] by n24.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jan 2004 20:29:32 -0000 To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.80 From: "hfroark" X-Originating-IP: 204.211.254.71 X-Yahoo-Profile: hfroark MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list lojban@yahoogroups.com; contact lojban-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list lojban@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2004 20:29:30 -0000 Subject: [lojban] On not using du for is Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-archive-position: 6934 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: hfroark@bigmailbox.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list At http://people.fi x.no/arj/lojban/malglico.html the example "ti du le mi patfu" is given as malglico for "ti patfu mi". The main reason is that one is not taking advantage of the place structures of the brivla. I'm going to replace "patfu" with "mamta"; this doesn't change the grammar, but I had an easier time coming up mith a realistic example for "patfu". So, if I were speaking of my mother as it is usually understood in English, I would say "ti mamta mi". "ti du le mi mamta" isn't wrong, but means the same as "ti du le mi pe mamta" and "ti du le mamta pe mi". That isn't incorrect; the woman described by "le mamta be mi be'o" is associated with me in some way (by being my mother), but it is unclear. But suppose I actually want the looser association meant by "pe". The example that I have thought of for this is a Lamaze class. The woman that I am describing by using "le mamta pe mi" is unlikely to be "le mamta be mi be'o". It's possible (if only in theory in the case of me and my mother), but it certainly isn't implied. Now my question is how would I best express "ti du le mamta pe mi" without the "du"? mi'e. rork. mu'o mi'e. rok. To unsubscribe, send mail to lojban-unsubscribe@onelist.com Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lojban/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: lojban-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/