From sentto-44114-21446-1073746662-lojban-in=lojban.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sat Jan 10 06:58:21 2004 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Sat, 10 Jan 2004 06:58:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from n29.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.66.85]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.30) id 1AfKZ4-0006Q9-Ql for lojban-in@lojban.org; Sat, 10 Jan 2004 06:58:14 -0800 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-44114-21446-1073746662-lojban-in=lojban.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.157] by n29.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 Jan 2004 14:57:43 -0000 X-Sender: a.rosta@lycos.co.uk X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 22080 invoked from network); 10 Jan 2004 14:57:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 Jan 2004 14:57:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO lmdeliver01.st1.spray.net) (212.78.202.210) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 Jan 2004 14:57:41 -0000 Received: from lmfilto01.st1.spray.net (lmfilto01.st1.spray.net [212.78.202.65]) by lmdeliver01.st1.spray.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 338C479912 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2004 15:57:41 +0100 (MET) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lmfilto01.st1.spray.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F4D5E1F2 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2004 15:57:41 +0100 (CET) Received: from lmsmtp01.st1.spray.net ([212.78.202.111]) by localhost (lmfilto01.st1.spray.net [212.78.202.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 13109-10 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2004 15:57:40 +0100 (CET) Received: from oemcomputer (host81-7-55-121.surfport24.v21.co.uk [81.7.55.121]) by lmsmtp01.st1.spray.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA9D21E789 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2004 15:57:39 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <002601c3d78a$1c0a4680$02e1fea9@oemcomputer> To: References: <1073712975.170.77527.m12@yahoogroups.com> <000e01c3d734$860ee460$fe7aa8c0@ONEOF> Organization: Livagian Consulate X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at spray.net X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 212.78.202.210 From: "And Rosta" X-Yahoo-Profile: andjamin MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list lojban@yahoogroups.com; contact lojban-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list lojban@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 14:55:44 -0000 Subject: [lojban] Re: On not using du for is Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-archive-position: 6963 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: a.rosta@lycos.co.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list ctefan: > la rork. pu cusku di'e: > > Now my question is how would I best express "ti du le mamta pe mi" > > without the "du"? > > You might use: > > ti poi mamta cu srana mi > > There is a little difference, but in cases where this expression is possible > it seems more lojbanic to me. I would hope that the more lojbanic option is simply to ensure that one's sentences do actually mean what one intends them to communicate. "ti poi mamta cu srana mi" means "Those, out of these-here things, that are mothers pertain to me". That is, "ti poi mamta" refers to the portion of ti that is a mamta. A closer but still inexact translation of "ti du le mamta pe mi" would be "ti no'u le mamta mi srana" or "le mamta ku no'u ti srana mi". However, to the extent that "ti mamta mi" and "ti du le mamta be mi" are very loosely equivalent, so "ti du le mamta pe mi" would have the same sort of loose equivalence to "ti mamta (se)ra'a mi". (N.B. I do not dispute that English "This is my mother" is best translated as "ti mi mamta" or even just "mamta mi", if the mother is gesturally indicated.) --And. To unsubscribe, send mail to lojban-unsubscribe@onelist.com ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/GSaulB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lojban/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: lojban-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/