From sentto-44114-21697-1078984091-lojban-in=lojban.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Wed Mar 10 21:48:48 2004 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Wed, 10 Mar 2004 21:48:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from n14.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.66.69]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.30) id 1B1J3i-0007Zq-KB for lojban-in@lojban.org; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 21:48:42 -0800 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-44114-21697-1078984091-lojban-in=lojban.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.94] by n14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 11 Mar 2004 05:48:11 -0000 X-Sender: phma@ixazon.dynip.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 88532 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2004 05:48:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 11 Mar 2004 05:48:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO blackcat.ixazon.lan) (208.150.110.21) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Mar 2004 05:48:10 -0000 Received: by blackcat.ixazon.lan (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 20A7E4B95; Thu, 11 Mar 2004 05:48:09 +0000 (UTC) Organization: dis To: lojban@yahoogroups.com User-Agent: KMail/1.5 References: In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <200403110048.08692.phma@webjockey.net> X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 208.150.110.21 From: Pierre Abbat MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list lojban@yahoogroups.com; contact lojban-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list lojban@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 00:48:08 -0500 Subject: [lojban] Re: pronouncing =?iso-8859-1?Q?=91?= as th Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis X-archive-position: 7200 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: phma@webjockey.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list On Wednesday 10 March 2004 23:40, la_okus wrote: > The usual pronunciation of the omnipresent apostrophe has > been described as the airy glide between the words "oh hello". I, > as an American English speaker, find this to take too long and > too much energy to say. The result is that ugly lujvo like ba'orzu'e > sort of split apart and get pronounced as BA'orZU'e, being > stressed in two places. > > Then I read on the wiki that .kreig.daniyl. pronounces it as `th' in > `think'. I find that this sound can be made much more quickly, > allowing me to zip over the "ba'o" of ba'orzu'e to make ba'orZU'e. > As a side effect, my lojban sounds a lot more like tolkien's > beautiful elvish languages. I realize that many people cannot > make this sound, which is why lojban's designers did good to > allow many alternative pronunciations. I am trying to invent some > airy version of the `th' sound so as to minimize the weirdness > when talking to other lojbanists. I can pronounce /bahorzuhe/ faster than /baŝorzuŝe/. /h/ requires only a flick of the vocal cords between the vowels; /ŝ/ requires moving the tongue. I even pronounce {fu'arka} with /h/, though etymologically it should have /ŝ/. > I am making this thread to ask what you all think of my decision. > Will lojban split into an assortment of accents, and if so, won't > this happen anyway when lojban gains more speakers outside > the US? Mind you that the lojban r is not limited to the American > English pronunciation, but also the trilled or french r. I pronounce Lojban "r" as a trill, except when it's vocalic. > PS. While I'm here, I'd like to clear up something about stress. In > the lujvo "dadysli", is it pronounced dadYsli or DADysli? Does > that little schwa get counted? DAdysli. The sound /y/ is never stressed in brivla. It can be stressed in cmavo and cmene; I usually stress names of letters when spelling, but not as often when they're used as pronouns. phma To unsubscribe, send mail to lojban-unsubscribe@onelist.com Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lojban/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: lojban-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/