From sentto-44114-21715-1079404568-lojban-in=lojban.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Mon Mar 15 18:36:45 2004 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Mon, 15 Mar 2004 18:36:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from n25.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.66.81]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.30) id 1B34Rb-0006rB-8u for lojban-in@lojban.org; Mon, 15 Mar 2004 18:36:39 -0800 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-44114-21715-1079404568-lojban-in=lojban.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.98] by n25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Mar 2004 02:36:08 -0000 X-Sender: xeubie@hotmail.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 17613 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2004 02:36:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m15.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 16 Mar 2004 02:36:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n39.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.107) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Mar 2004 02:36:07 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.113] by n39.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Mar 2004 02:36:07 -0000 To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.107 From: "la_okus" X-Originating-IP: 69.162.47.2 X-Yahoo-Profile: la_okus MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list lojban@yahoogroups.com; contact lojban-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list lojban@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 02:36:07 -0000 Subject: [lojban] How to test Sapir Whorf Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-archive-position: 7218 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: xeubie@hotmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list This topic may have been covered before, so please direct me to it if you remember any. I read some brief discussion on how lojbanists actually expect to test sapir whorf scientifically, but the transcripts I was reading were from ten years ago. What are the latest plans, if any? So far all I can say is that speakers from a wide variety of cultures need to be collected into a single area with suitable extended-period living quarters. From there they would go through complete lojban immersion until they were fluent. Somebody mentioned a test that would be taken before and then after this multi-year experiment in hopes of detecting a change, but I can't be sure exactly what the nature of the test would be. Another option is to test discretely, when they don't know they're being tested. This type of testing requires vigorous scientific consideration -- any loophole could ruin years of hard work and thousands of dollars of spending. A second option is to leave Sapir Whorf on a subjective basis; you learn the language, discover specific examples where lojban is much easier and more expressive, and leave it at that. Similar to the second option is to raise children in an environment where english and lojban are spoken equally. If it is true that bilingual speakers in such an environment will choose the language most conventient for their needs, this may be grounds for observing Sapir Whorf effects. Bilingual speakers today may already experience them, but it is my hope that they will be more apparent when one of the languages is Lojban. mu'omi'e .okus. To unsubscribe, send mail to lojban-unsubscribe@onelist.com Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lojban/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: lojban-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/