From sentto-44114-22252-1084222126-lojban-in=lojban.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Mon May 10 13:49:25 2004 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Mon, 10 May 2004 13:49:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from n22.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.66.78]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.31) id 1BNHiA-0008IF-C3 for lojban-in@lojban.org; Mon, 10 May 2004 13:49:18 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-44114-22252-1084222126-lojban-in=lojban.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.31] by n22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 10 May 2004 20:48:47 -0000 X-Sender: lojbab@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 31472 invoked from network); 10 May 2004 20:48:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 10 May 2004 20:48:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO lakermmtao05.cox.net) (68.230.240.34) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 10 May 2004 20:48:46 -0000 Received: from bob.lojban.org ([68.228.12.146]) by lakermmtao05.cox.net (InterMail vM.6.01.03.02 201-2131-111-104-20040324) with ESMTP id <20040510204839.XGYJ18641.lakermmtao05.cox.net@bob.lojban.org> for ; Mon, 10 May 2004 16:48:39 -0400 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20040510163139.036f8aa0@pop.east.cox.net> X-Sender: lojbab@pop.east.cox.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.0.9 To: lojban@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <20040510182426.93603.qmail@web41907.mail.yahoo.com> References: X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 68.230.240.34 From: Bob LeChevalier X-Yahoo-Profile: lojbab MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list lojban@yahoogroups.com; contact lojban-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list lojban@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 16:47:06 -0400 Subject: [lojban] Re: loglan/lojban masses/sets Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis X-archive-position: 7767 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: lojbab@lojban.org Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list At 11:24 AM 5/10/04 -0700, Jorge "Llambías" wrote: >Loglan "lea", the gigantic individual, is probably >Lojban's {piro loi}, the whole mass. Not recalling how things have evolved in the last 15 years, but lea, when first added to TLI Loglan, meant EXACTLY Lojban "ro lo ro", and was used for universal claims about veridical entities. Lojban lo was in a sense back derived from lea, once pc explained what "veridical" meant. >Loglan "lo" is what And once described as "the myopic >singularizer", all the individuals considered as one >individual (not added together as with "lea" but all >superposed into one). For a long time I used Lojban >{lo'e} for this as a generic. But now I am using Lojban >{lo}, thus returning to the origins in some sense. > >Loglan does not have anything equivalent to {lo} >as {su'o lo}. For that it simply uses the equivalent >of {su'o broda}. ba jia broda, IIRC (Lojban equivalent "da poi broda") was the closest TLI Loglan equivalent to lo broda. >As far as I know it doesn't have anything like lo'e/le'e >either. It has loe which of used at various times for both Lojban lo'e and le'e > > Comparing our languages we have stuck with the articles/descriptors. > > In particular, I wonder how can I translate from Loglan to Lojban > > {Focu mrenu} --- a quartet of persons? Is it {lo'i vo prenu} or > > something else? > >With my current understanding, I'd say {lo vo prenu} for the generic >case (as in "this is meant to be played by a quartet") or >{le vo prenu} if you have a particular quartet in mind. prenu vomei, with conversion to select the appropriate place of the mei selbri depending on whether you want a set, mass, or individuals. TLI masses were covered by loi and lei with the quantifiers on the latter covering the two senses of the "two men carrying the log across the field. lojbab -- lojbab lojbab@lojban.org Bob LeChevalier, Founder, The Logical Language Group (Opinions are my own; I do not speak for the organization.) Artificial language Loglan/Lojban: http://www.lojban.org ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/GSaulB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe, send mail to lojban-unsubscribe@onelist.com Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lojban/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: lojban-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/