From pnewton@gmx.de Fri May 14 03:30:10 2004 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Fri, 14 May 2004 03:30:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from postman2.arcor-online.net ([151.189.20.157] helo=postman.arcor.de) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_3DES_EDE_CBC_SHA:24) (Exim 4.32) id 1BOZwz-0000eV-6Z for lojban-list@lojban.org; Fri, 14 May 2004 03:29:57 -0700 Received: from hamwpne1 (cou.ch [212.13.198.90]) (authenticated bits=0) by postman.arcor.de (8.13.0.PreAlpha4/8.13.0.PreAlpha4) with ESMTP id i4EATq6b027271 for ; Fri, 14 May 2004 12:29:53 +0200 (MEST) From: "Philip Newton" Organization: datenrevision GmbH & Co. OHG To: lojban-list@lojban.org Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 12:29:49 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: [lojban] Re: word for "action" Message-ID: <40A4BBBD.5940.5580A9@localhost> Priority: normal In-reply-to: <20040513211422.GE16333@fysh.org> References: <200405132031.i4DKV7m22901@xahlee.org> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.02a) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-description: Mail message body X-archive-position: 7835 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: pnewton@gmx.de Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list On 13 May 2004 at 22:14, Zefram wrote: > xahlee.org wrote: > >btw, is speed "ni sultra" or "nilsutra"? > > Both. The latter (a lujvo) expresses as a single word exactly the same > thing that the former does. Hm... I don't think that's correct. "ni sutra" is (as I understand it) a tanru and is, in principle, more vague, while lujvo have one precise meaning, similar to gismu. (I think a favourite example is that "gerku zdani" could be a house that a dog lives in, or a house shaped like a dog, or something else composed of the meanings of "gerku" and "zdani", while the lujvo "gerzda" has one meaning - whatever the dictionary defined it to have.) Now, with tanru that have NU (e.g. ni, nu, ka) as their first component as a gismu as their second, the ambiguity is probably much less, but I wouldn't claim that "ni sutra" and "nilsutra" express "exactly the same thing". > "zukyvla" would be the lujvo. Or "zu'evla", which gets a better score in the lujvo scoring algorithm. (The two are exactly equivalent in meaning, however, by the definition of lujvo.) > What's the process to make a lujvo official? At first, I was inclined to say that you can just make them up and nobody needs to "bless" them specifically. However, when I thought about the "lujvo have the unambiguous meaning defined in the dictionary", I believe that's not true. And come to think of it, I don't know the answer to "how to make a lujvo official". Is jbovlaste the official dictionary of lujvo expansions? If not, is there one? Are all lujvo in NORALUJV.txt official? After all, one cannot simply look at a lujvo and see the place structure, though the dikyjvo/seljvajvo movement attempts to regularise this, so there must be some way to look it up. (This would seem to imply that people shouldn't try to come up with lujvo on-the-fly but should stick to tanru.) (Interestingly, jbofihe translates "dikyjvo" as "regular (na'i) lujvo; misnomer for ri'ijvo" but I'd never heard "ri'ijvo" before. It does make a bit of sense now that I've looked at the definition of ritli, especially the x3 and x4 places, but I though "seljvajvo" was the currently accepted term.) mu'o mi'e .filip. -- filip.niutyn. li te'o te'a ka'o bi'e pi'i pai su'i pa du li no