From sentto-44114-22749-1090609327-lojban-in=lojban.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Fri Jul 23 12:02:50 2004 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Fri, 23 Jul 2004 12:02:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from n19.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.66.74]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Bo5JV-0003j9-SY for lojban-in@lojban.org; Fri, 23 Jul 2004 12:02:38 -0700 X-eGroups-Return: sentto-44114-22749-1090609327-lojban-in=lojban.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.28] by n19.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Jul 2004 19:02:07 -0000 X-Sender: reverendzow@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 25721 invoked from network); 23 Jul 2004 19:02:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m22.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Jul 2004 19:02:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n23.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.79) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Jul 2004 19:02:03 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.151] by n23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Jul 2004 19:00:38 -0000 To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <537d06d0040723025910704ee4@mail.gmail.com> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.79 From: "reverendzow" X-Originating-IP: 66.241.95.142 X-Yahoo-Profile: reverendzow MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list lojban@yahoogroups.com; contact lojban-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list lojban@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 19:00:36 -0000 Subject: [lojban] Re: Projects Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-archive-position: 8304 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: reverendzow@yahoo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list --- In lojban@yahoogroups.com, Philip Newton wrote: > On Fri, 23 Jul 2004 08:27:16 -0000, reverendzow wrote: > > Lastly, a set of ideograms for gismu. > > There've been a couple of attempts at this before; one of mine (based > on Japanese) is at http://shavian.org/lojban/gismu-jap.html , for > example. (At least one other is based on Chinese, IIRC). Not as > official projects, though; more as fun, as I understand it. Interesting. I'll check this out. > > This requires the potential to > > make a simple visual system for making lujvo, else the phonetic > > alphabet could be used for gismu and lujvo as well. > > It would certainly need to allow people to differentiate between lujvo > and tanru; "glibau" is not the same as "glico bangu". (It *is* the > same as "gicybau" or "glicybangu", though, by definition, so one > notation could conceivably represent either.) So if glibau = gicybau = glicybangu, and these are the only ways to combine glico bangu into a lujvo, then I would use some sort of physical connector between the two glyphs. The corresponding tanru would merely be the glyphs adjacent, sans connector or cmavo. > > For instance, what shall we call words that possess brivla? > > What do you mean with that? How can a word possess a brivla? There are > words, some of which are Lojban words, some of which are brivla. Right. I meant rafsi, and obviously had been awake too long. > > I have come up with ka'eserafsi, although my construction may > > be flawed, > > That falls apart into the three words "ka'e se rafsi". "da ka'e se > rafsi" seems to me to mean something like "X can be a word which has > rafsi". But only gismu and some cmavo have rafsi; brivla in general do > not. (The lujvo composed of "ka'e se rafsi" would be "ka'erselrafsi", > FWIW.) My intent of a literal translation was "X has the ability to be the meaning of a rafsi". And (I think) I would prefer lo over da in this instance. So "lo ka'erselrafsi", perhaps? > > Similarly, it seems the selma'o are named > > after the most commonly used elemental cmavo, rather than a Lojban > > meaning of their function. > > *nods* Those are conventional English names, though. > > I do not believe there are any official Lojban names for cmavo; > indeed, I seem to recall some saying that they hope that the Lojban > name for e.g. selma'o GOhA does not contain the word "go'a". Hear, hear. I'm guessing naming the selma'o is then of a low-ish priority. The main reason I would like to have it is for the purpose of building a Java class heierarchy with solely Lojban names for the components. > > The point is: it is quite likely that the vocabulary needs > > serious optimization/reform if widespread adoption of > > Lojban is to occur. > > The point is: many people have put a lot of effort into learning > Lojban in its current form. Reforming or optimising would render that > effort largely useless. > > Aka: it's not gonna happen. If you want to create son-of-Lojban, by > all means feel free, but don't tinker with Lojban itself (unless you'd > like to join the BPFK and attempt to formalise what exactly certain > constructs mean). What's a BPFK? I think such a change -could- happen, but to do so, the following would have to occur: Someone creates a new Lojban vocabulary that has major improvements over the current one (although this is not necessarily possible), then the existing (and relatively small as I understand it) Lojban community would need to be convinced that this new vocabulary was worth the work in switching. $0.02 > Good luck. Thank you. > mu'o mi'e .filip. > -- > Philip Newton ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/GSaulB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe, send mail to lojban-unsubscribe@onelist.com Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lojban/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: lojban-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/