From zefram@fysh.org Sat Aug 21 02:15:33 2004
Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Sat, 21 Aug 2004 02:15:34 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from fysh.org
	([83.170.75.51] helo=bowl.fysh.org ident=mail)
	by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_3DES_EDE_CBC_SHA:24)
	(Exim 4.34)
	id 1ByRy0-00071K-Cx
	for lojban-list@lojban.org; Sat, 21 Aug 2004 02:15:17 -0700
Received: from zefram by bowl.fysh.org with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian))
	id 1ByRxo-0004aT-00
	for <lojban-list@lojban.org>; Sat, 21 Aug 2004 10:15:04 +0100
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004 10:15:04 +0100
From: Zefram <zefram@fysh.org>
To: lojban-list@lojban.org
Subject: [lojban] Re: Piraha and SWH
Message-ID: <20040821091504.GA13917@fysh.org>
References: <20040820083359.GA7469@fysh.org> <20040820190429.GE5127@chain.digitalkingdom.org> <20040820190947.GF5127@chain.digitalkingdom.org> <200408202125.31324.phma@phma.hn.org>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <200408202125.31324.phma@phma.hn.org>
User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.28i
X-archive-position: 8513
X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0
Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org
Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org
X-original-sender: zefram@fysh.org
Precedence: bulk
Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org
X-list: lojban-list

Pierre Abbat wrote:
>Hm. Is there any way the Pirahã (that word keeps making me think Piranha) 

Apparently it's pronounced {pida'AN}.

>could be convinced to let their children take math lessons so that when they 
>grow up they can tell when they're being cheated?

This was something that occurred to me.  Because of their exceptionally
simple kinship system, they're somewhat inbred.  We need this experiment,
in order to see whether the inability to gain numeracy is genetic or
(as Everett claims) cultural.  It looks like so far no outsider has
lived with them long enough to do this.

Something else that occurred to me.  Several aspects of their culture and
cognition remind me of the depiction of Homo erectus in Stephen Baxter's
novel "Evolution".  The impermanence of everything; discarding tools after
a couple of uses; failure to acquire new skills (dugout canoe making)
comparable in complexity to existing skills; inability to stick to a
planned task (house building); inconsideration of anything not actually
present (the planes and model building).  Might this be a remnant of
pre-human culture?

Someone has got to stop them buying whiskey.

-zefram