From sentto-44114-23000-1093720718-lojban-in=lojban.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Sat Aug 28 12:19:13 2004 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Sat, 28 Aug 2004 12:19:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from n22a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.51]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.34) id 1C18jB-0004n1-GK for lojban-in@lojban.org; Sat, 28 Aug 2004 12:19:05 -0700 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n22.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Aug 2004 19:18:38 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.198] by mailer3.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Aug 2004 19:18:38 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: eks2@york.ac.uk X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 46128 invoked from network); 28 Aug 2004 19:18:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Aug 2004 19:18:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n38.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.106) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Aug 2004 19:18:36 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.131] by n38.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Aug 2004 19:18:36 -0000 To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.218.66.106 From: "Evgeni Sklyanin" X-Originating-IP: 62.252.0.5 X-Yahoo-Profile: sklyanin MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list lojban@yahoogroups.com; contact lojban-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list lojban@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 19:18:35 -0000 Subject: [lojban] personal pro-sumti as masses Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-archive-position: 8564 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: eks2@york.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list coi rodo The question I want to ask has arisen recently in a discussion between Russian loglanists and lojbanists on a Russian linguistic forum http://lingvoforum.net/viewtopic.php?p=13949 The discussion started from an attempt to translate into lojban the frase "Together, we are stronger than apart" (in Loglan {Miu forli mio} --- Loglan has two series of personal pronouns for masses and individuals). The first attempt was {mi'a tsamau ro mi'a} which was criticized on the grounds that {mi'a}, as defined in CLL, is a mass. The following variants were suggested: {mi'a tsamau lu'a mi'a} =? we-and-they-jointly are stronger then some of us or {mi'a tsamau ro lu'a mi'a} =? we-and-they-jointly are stronger than each of us Questions: 1. Which of the variants do you prefer? 2. Can we use {me} instead of {lu'a}? 3. In CLL it is said that {mi'o}, {mi'a}, {ma'a}, and {do'o} are masses. How about other personal pro-sumti? Are they also masses? For example, {ro lu'a do}=? each of you? If so, is the popular greating {coi rodo} correct? May be, {coi ro lu'a do} is better? mu'o mi'e .evgenis. ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> $9.95 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/GSaulB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe, send mail to lojban-unsubscribe@onelist.com Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lojban/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: lojban-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/