From sentto-44114-23074-1095795159-lojban-in=lojban.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Tue Sep 21 12:33:55 2004 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Tue, 21 Sep 2004 12:33:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from n55.grp.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.67.67]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.34) id 1C9qOX-00053m-D6 for lojban-in@lojban.org; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 12:33:46 -0700 Received: from [66.218.66.160] by n55.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Sep 2004 19:32:40 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: jimc@math.ucla.edu X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 46405 invoked from network); 21 Sep 2004 19:32:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m20.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 21 Sep 2004 19:32:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO harlech.math.ucla.edu) (128.97.4.250) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Sep 2004 19:32:37 -0000 Received: from xena.cft.ca.us (lsanca1-ar2-4-60-045-106.lsanca1.dsl-verizon.net [4.60.45.106]) (using TLSv1 with cipher EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA (168/168 bits)) (Client CN "James F. Carter", Issuer "UCLA-Mathnet Root Certificate" (verified OK)) by harlech.math.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 337AB7534A for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 12:32:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: by xena.cft.ca.us (Postfix, from userid 228) id 73992272C4; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 12:32:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xena.cft.ca.us (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D4596209C for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2004 12:32:36 -0700 (PDT) To: lojban@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <20040921175716.GE1650@chain.digitalkingdom.org> Message-ID: References: <200409202217.22149.phma@phma.hn.org> <200409211153.13401.phma@phma.hn.org> <20040921175716.GE1650@chain.digitalkingdom.org> X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 128.97.4.250 From: Jim Carter MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list lojban@yahoogroups.com; contact lojban-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list lojban@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 12:32:36 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [lojban] Re: guess the tanru Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 8641 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jimc@MATH.UCLA.EDU Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list On Tue, 21 Sep 2004, Robin Lee Powell wrote: > On Tue, Sep 21, 2004 at 11:53:13AM -0400, Pierre Abbat wrote: > > On Tuesday 21 September 2004 11:31, Arnt Richard Johansen wrote: > > > On Mon, 20 Sep 2004, Pierre Abbat wrote: > > > > Here's a tanru for a phrase I've seen many times. Can you > > > > guess what it means? {terzbacau spisa nilcla kamsortai} > > > > > > "Materialless piece length polymorphism". > > > > > > Have no idea what it *means*, though. > > > > Restriction fragment length polymorphism, > > Oh, yeah, I feel *SO* bad that I didn't figure that out... > > What the hell was the point of that exercise, exactly? To test our > obscure biology knowledge? It's an article of faith that people are supposed to be able to understand a lujvo, or its underlying tanru, that they have never heard before. Usually it works pretty well, but this one fell on its face. Granted, the English tanru isn't that informative: how does "restriction" get into the act anyway? Viruses are "restricted" in their host range because hosts have enzymes that cut DNA at specific sequences that may or not appear in the virus genome, but which appear nowhere in the host genome. When the enzymes are harvested and applied to experimental sample DNA, the cut pieces are called "restriction fragments", and variations (polymorphism) in cut points, and thus the fragment lengths, are a sign that different kinds of DNA are in the sample. To symbolize that entire paragraph in four words is daunting in any language, so I don't feel too bad that nobody guessed the tanru, particularly given that they aren't bio experts. But we need to be able to create guessable tanru on a broad scale. James F. Carter Voice 310 825 2897 FAX 310 206 6673 UCLA-Mathnet; 6115 MSA; 405 Hilgard Ave.; Los Angeles, CA, USA 90095-1555 Email: jimc@math.ucla.edu http://www.math.ucla.edu/~jimc (q.v. for PGP key) ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> $9.95 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/GSaulB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe, send mail to lojban-unsubscribe@onelist.com Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lojban/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: lojban-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/