From sentto-44114-23268-1098482910-lojban-in=lojban.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Fri Oct 22 15:09:11 2004 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Fri, 22 Oct 2004 15:09:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from n13a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.24]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CL7ap-0001qO-1E for lojban-in@lojban.org; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 15:09:03 -0700 Received: from [66.218.66.58] by n13.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Oct 2004 22:08:31 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.160] by mailer7.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Oct 2004 22:08:31 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: lojban@solipsys.co.uk X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 21749 invoked from network); 22 Oct 2004 22:08:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m20.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Oct 2004 22:08:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n1a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.35) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Oct 2004 22:08:28 -0000 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n1.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Oct 2004 22:08:27 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.133] by mailer4.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Oct 2004 22:08:27 -0000 To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200410221634.16750.phma@phma.hn.org> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 66.94.237.35 From: "riderofgiraffes" X-Originating-IP: 194.153.10.165 X-Yahoo-Profile: riderofgiraffes MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list lojban@yahoogroups.com; contact lojban-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list lojban@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 22:08:26 -0000 Subject: [lojban] Re: Help in examples ... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-archive-position: 8840 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: lojban@solipsys.co.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list >> Please can someone provide me with a few examples where a >> sumti cannot be passed of as "just a complex sort of noun"? > > A sumti is an argument of a predicate, according to the gimste. > A phrase which has the same internal grammar as a sumti but is > the object of {pe} (which is not a preposition or a case marker) > is not a sumti, because the pe-phrase modifies a sumti, not a > selbri. That's not an example of a sumti which isn't a complex > sort of noun, but an example of the inverse. Well, it's a case of a complex noun (the {sumti}) being modified from one grammatical class to another. It seems that the thing that's a {sumti} is still fulfilling the role of a "complex noun". > Sumti are much more often made from verbs than nouns, so it > sounds a bit funny to call them noun phrases. {le ... ku} are, to my mind, brackets that convert the {selbri} grammatical class to the {sumti} grammatical class. So much of the lojban grammar can be thought of like this that it makes clear and perfect sense not to use the English classifications. I still need some examples of {sumti} that are not really just "complex nouns". ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/GSaulB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe, send mail to lojban-unsubscribe@onelist.com Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lojban/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: lojban-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/