From jjllambias2000@yahoo.com.ar Fri Oct 22 16:11:07 2004 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Fri, 22 Oct 2004 16:11:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from web41902.mail.yahoo.com ([66.218.93.153]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CL8YO-0002xE-L5 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 16:10:36 -0700 Message-ID: <20041022231005.12037.qmail@web41902.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [200.43.213.92] by web41902.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 22 Oct 2004 16:10:05 PDT Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 16:10:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Jorge "Llambías" Subject: [lojban] Re: Help in examples ... To: lojban-list@lojban.org In-Reply-To: <200410221634.16750.phma@phma.hn.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-archive-position: 8846 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jjllambias2000@yahoo.com.ar Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list --- Pierre Abbat wrote: > A sumti is an argument of a predicate, according to the gimste. That's true, but in English the word "sumti", borrowed from Lojban, is used to describe anything that *can* be used as an argument, not just things in *actual use* as arguments. In English we will often say that {mi}, {lo cukta}, {lo ka ke'a bajra}, {li mu} and {zoi zoi moo zoi} are all sumti, whether or not they have ever been the arguments of any predicate. So if we translated from English "a sumti" back into Lojban it should probably be {lo ka'e sumti}. >A phrase which > has the same internal grammar as a sumti but is the object of {pe} (which is > not a preposition or a case marker) is not a sumti, because the pe-phrase > modifies a sumti, not a selbri. At least overtly, the phrase is not being a sumti. (But { pe } is short for { poi ke'a srana }, so we could say that the phrase is being sumti to the predicate {srana} implicit in {pe}.) However in {zo mi}, the word {mi} is not being a sumti, it is just being a word. > Sumti are much more often made from verbs than nouns, so it sounds > a bit funny to call them noun phrases. There are no nouns in Lojban (unless pronouns count as nouns), there are only noun phrases. mu'o mi'e xorxes _______________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! http://vote.yahoo.com