From rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org Sun Nov 21 20:41:24 2004
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Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 20:41:15 -0800
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Subject: [lojban] Re: Archivist/Founders: {ri'a nai} vs. {se mau nai}
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From: Robin Lee Powell <rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org>
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On Sun, Nov 21, 2004 at 04:42:38PM -0500, Bob LeChevalier wrote:
> Robin Lee Powell wrote:
> >I'm looking at the BAI* cmavo, and I notice that {ri'a nai} (and
> >{ki'u nai}, and so on) all mean something like "despite (tagged
> >sumti)", whereas the only non-causative BAI NAI sumti ({se mau
> >nai} and {se ma'e nai} mean something like "it is not the case
> >that (tagged sumti)".
> >
> >The "despite" thing seems to be a huge wart, and I'm wondering if
> >you guys had anything in mind for BAI+NAI *in general*.
> 
> But I should think that the causals will be more or less in line
> with whatever you come up with - I believe that we found that the
> semantics of "despite" and "nevertheless" are predictable from
> contradictory negation of sumti.  You say that they are a "wart",
> but how so?

Because "ri'a nai" should be "not caused by".  IOW:

    mi klama ri'a nai lo nu do cpedu

is "I came, but not because you asked".  This is *VERY* different
"I came despite the fact that you asked".  That it's the latter and
not the former seems a wart.

-Robin

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