From sentto-44114-23470-1101294422-lojban-in=lojban.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Wed Nov 24 03:07:52 2004 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Wed, 24 Nov 2004 03:07:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from n6a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.40]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CWuzm-000453-SW for lojban-in@lojban.org; Wed, 24 Nov 2004 03:07:35 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.2] by n6.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Nov 2004 11:07:02 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.192] by mailer2.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Nov 2004 11:07:02 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: thecartographers@gmail.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 48684 invoked from network); 24 Nov 2004 11:06:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.167) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Nov 2004 11:06:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO rproxy.gmail.com) (64.233.170.201) by mta6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Nov 2004 11:06:56 -0000 Received: by rproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 40so22420rnz for ; Wed, 24 Nov 2004 03:06:55 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=Odn2NkAzShx2cmYOaZCbciEu/aF3eyPLXKD+Mr7/qPPtVODu9pxFarNtKsO8p46gB7Tgv5IlHa6wN+ywI7rm3ahsdZWC98i5BHgr+Q0/Js64Lzky14w1hC29QLWY6MgHr8B456yr8tBBg6sGrquQ5GWzZ+tOmAbc/Hy6dcQsfto= Received: by 10.38.179.40 with SMTP id b40mr196920rnf; Wed, 24 Nov 2004 03:06:55 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.38.179.73 with HTTP; Wed, 24 Nov 2004 03:06:55 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: To: jordimastrullenque@yahoo.com Cc: lojban@yahoogroups.com In-Reply-To: <20041124105418.71982.qmail@web51609.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20041124083223.GC25791@chain.digitalkingdom.org> <20041124105418.71982.qmail@web51609.mail.yahoo.com> X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 64.233.170.201 X-eGroups-From: Tristan Mc Leay From: Tristan Mc Leay X-Yahoo-Profile: kesuari MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list lojban@yahoogroups.com; contact lojban-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list lojban@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 22:06:55 +1100 Subject: [lojban] Re: Alliterative verse try Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 9045 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: yahoogroups@thecartographers.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 02:54:17 -0800 (PST), jordi mas wrote: > > > > DANsu le DAmryzgi || fa le ga'arDANti > > > bai le nu le DEGji || cu gityDEsku > > > i pu TRAti gi'e ca TCEna || fa le TAbrysna > > > ce'o batyTUNta || poi KANsa le snosliTO'a > > > > I have not the skill to comment usefully on > > alliterative verse, but > > it looks pretty cool to me. > > Forgot to say, I too lack > alliterative verse criticism skills, > but I've read the poem aloud > and IMHO that TCE does not seem > to sound like anything else in the > same line, to my ears I mean. No doubt > native lojban speakers might be of > a different opinion, eventually. The basic ideas of alliterative verse is that you have four stressed syllables per line (two per half-line; the || in the above I assume are the caesurae---pauses---that separate the half-lines), with at least two of the stressed syllables (and normally three) alliterating. I would consider the above poor for an expert, but a good start. The exact rules on alliteration are language-dependent. In Old English, s, sc, st, and sp did not alliterate, whereas /k/ and /tS/ (spelt c) or /g/ and /j/ (spelt g) alliterated. (In Old English, all vowels alliterate with all others, but as Lojban Alliterative Poetry develops, it might be that they have to assonate instead, or perhaps they could even be banned from alliterative positions.) I think it's quite reasonable to assume that in Lojban, TC aliterates with T and TR, as TC is considered an onset, not a single sound. -- Tristan ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/GSaulB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe, send mail to lojban-unsubscribe@onelist.com Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lojban/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: lojban-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/