From sentto-44114-23535-1103806530-lojban-in=lojban.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Thu Dec 23 04:56:14 2004 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Thu, 23 Dec 2004 04:56:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from n1a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.35]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.34) id 1ChSVd-0002iM-KM for lojban-in@lojban.org; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 04:56:01 -0800 Received: from [66.218.69.4] by n1.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Dec 2004 12:55:30 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.198] by mailer4.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Dec 2004 12:55:30 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: lojbab@lojban.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 30228 invoked from network); 23 Dec 2004 12:55:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Dec 2004 12:55:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO lakermmtao10.cox.net) (68.230.240.29) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Dec 2004 12:55:28 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (really [24.250.99.39]) by lakermmtao10.cox.net (InterMail vM.6.01.04.00 201-2131-117-20041022) with ESMTP id <20041223124849.LQNC1657.lakermmtao10.cox.net@[127.0.0.1]>; Thu, 23 Dec 2004 07:48:49 -0500 Message-ID: <41CABD73.7010800@lojban.org> User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.8 (Windows/20040913) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en To: John Cowan Cc: lojban@yahoogroups.com References: <20041222184225.GN20429@chain.digitalkingdom.org> <20041222190005.GE6612@skunk.reutershealth.com> In-Reply-To: <20041222190005.GE6612@skunk.reutershealth.com> X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 68.230.240.29 From: Bob LeChevalier X-Yahoo-Profile: lojbab MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list lojban@yahoogroups.com; contact lojban-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list lojban@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 07:43:31 -0500 Subject: [lojban] Re: Founders: ja'o and ni'ikri Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-archive-position: 9115 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: lojbab@lojban.org Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list John Cowan wrote: >Robin Lee Powell scripsit: > > > >>The definition for ja'o mentions "ni'ikri", which is not in >>NORALUJV. It seems inherently contradictory to me; what was it >>intended to mean? >> >> > >I think it dates back to the days before the krici/jinvi distinction was >clearly understood. In any event, the definition of "krici" as believing >without evidence/proof is probably too strong: it should be more like >believing with or without evidence/proof. > I think it dates back to before the era when people expected that lujvo would be strictly semantically compositional. Before jvojva, a word like ni'ikri could encompass krici and jinvi even if the latter two were mutually exclusive. krici is in fact not intended to be exclusive of jinvi. The point is that the belief is independent of any evidence. In that sense, believing "with or without evidence" is identical to believing "without evidence". If you invoke the relevance of evidence at all, you also need to add in "believe contrary to evidence" because that also happens in belief. lojbab ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> $4.98 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Q7_YsB/neXJAA/yQLSAA/GSaulB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe, send mail to lojban-unsubscribe@onelist.com Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lojban/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: lojban-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/