From sentto-44114-23581-1104914196-lojban-in=lojban.org@returns.groups.yahoo.com Wed Jan 05 00:37:16 2005 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Wed, 05 Jan 2005 00:37:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from n18a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.47]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.34) id 1Cm6fD-0001QT-Ff for lojban-in@lojban.org; Wed, 05 Jan 2005 00:37:07 -0800 Received: from [66.218.66.59] by n18.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Jan 2005 08:36:36 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.29] by mailer8.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 05 Jan 2005 08:36:36 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: xah@xahlee.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 14576 invoked from network); 5 Jan 2005 08:36:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 5 Jan 2005 08:36:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO xahlee.org) (206.130.99.40) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Jan 2005 08:36:35 -0000 Received: from [192.168.1.3] (c-24-6-96-206.client.comcast.net [24.6.96.206]) (authenticated) by xahlee.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id j058aZA03575 for ; Wed, 5 Jan 2005 01:36:35 -0700 Message-Id: To: lojban@yahoogroups.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) X-eGroups-Remote-IP: 206.130.99.40 From: xah lee X-Yahoo-Profile: p0lyglut MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list lojban@yahoogroups.com; contact lojban-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list lojban@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2005 00:36:33 -0800 Subject: [lojban] some thoughts about lojban use and future Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-archive-position: 9165 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: xah@xahlee.org Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list on the orkut forum sprang a discussion and here's my thoughts. (below) What do you guys think is lojban's use and future? For controlling devices using spoken languages... i think lojban would offer not much more benefit than natural languages. The task of having computers understanding natural languages at parsing level is basically solved. For example, today there are lots of online translation softwares from and to many natural languages and they do manage. To go beyond translation to real understanding as to generate a proper response, involves AI that is still pure science fiction. in sort, today we already have the machinery to parse natural languages for the most part and lojban's regularity and formal spec wouldn't make much difference. Further, as appliances taking spoken commands from people in the near future, it would probably be a subset of spoken phrases. So, it makes no difference of using lojban or English. (and of course we are discoursing imagined scenarios, because in reality no manufacture would ever implement lojban) I don't think lojban will befit as a language for human communication. Suppose if we have a region to speak lojban from now on, and lojban being the first language of all newborns. I believe in a few generations lojban will quickly loss all its design premises of regularity and mathematical properties. This i believe because humans do not process information as a logical machine, even if all their thoughts are in a logical language. The need to create new words and other daily communication will very quickly blow away any math properties of lojban. as to the worf(sp?) hypothesis that language effects thought, it is obviously true. I think it is moronic to believe otherwise. I think the way for lojban to prosper is for it to remain in the hands of logic community, as it is today. Lojban is a great tool in studying the relation of meaning, logic, and natural languages. It is an aid in the field of philosophy of languages or analytic philosophy. I imagine the utmost achievement for lojban is for example having mathematical treaties in lojban, and for it to be heavily used in AI research, machine to machine or human to machine. --------- the above spran from an orkut.com lojban forum discussion. What do you guys think is lojban's use and future? Xah xah@xahlee.org http://xahlee.org/PageTwo_dir/more.html ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> What would our lives be like without music, dance, and theater? Donate or volunteer in the arts today at Network for Good! http://us.click.yahoo.com/TzSHvD/SOnJAA/79vVAA/GSaulB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe, send mail to lojban-unsubscribe@onelist.com Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lojban/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: lojban-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/