From rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org Tue Feb 01 15:12:34 2005 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Tue, 01 Feb 2005 15:12:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from rlpowell by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.34) id 1Cw7C7-000119-Hj for lojban-list@lojban.org; Tue, 01 Feb 2005 15:12:27 -0800 Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 15:12:27 -0800 To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] pacna is kind of broken. Message-ID: <20050201231227.GU16153@chain.digitalkingdom.org> Mail-Followup-To: lojban-list@lojban.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6+20040907i From: Robin Lee Powell X-archive-position: 9397 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list The definition of pacna is amazingly polysemous. pacna pa'a hope x1 hopes/wishes for/desires x2 (event), expected likelihood x3 (0-1); x1 hopes that x2 happens Even in the main definition we're conflating "desire" (which is djica) with expectation (the x3 place), but the notes make this much, much worse: [also: x1 is hopeful of x2; x2 will hopefully occur, as hoped for by x1; the value of x3 is a subjective estimate of likeliness according to x1, and is the basic determinant of whether pacna means ' hope ' or 'wish' or 'expect': hoping for objects/states with negligible expectation is "wishing"; if the state is plausibly likely, it is "hoping"; when the probability is subjectively near 1, the attitude is described as "expecting"; the value will usually be expressed using inexact numbers ("li piso'u" to "li piro"); wish (= sotpa'a), hope (= sorpa'a), expect (= sojypa'a)]; (cf. djica) This seems to make it clear that pacna means "x1 expect x2 with subjective likelihood x3", but the keyword is "hope", which means expectation *and* desire. Desire is even mentioned in the definition. There is no other word that I can find that has a subjective or expected likelihood, and it's a very, very nice thing to have. My belief is that only the expectation meaning was intended by the founders, but I would like to have that confirmed. I consider this level of polysemousness in a Lojban word to be a serious error. -Robin -- http://www.digitalkingdom.org/~rlpowell/ *** http://www.lojban.org/ Reason #237 To Learn Lojban: "Homonyms: Their Grate!" Proud Supporter of the Singularity Institute - http://singinst.org/