From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Tue Mar 22 16:29:47 2005 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Tue, 22 Mar 2005 16:29:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.44) id 1DDtki-0004AN-1J for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Tue, 22 Mar 2005 16:29:40 -0800 Received: from n20a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.49]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.44) id 1DDtkf-00049n-Qi for lojban-in@lojban.org; Tue, 22 Mar 2005 16:29:39 -0800 DomainKey-Signature: Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n20.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Mar 2005 00:29:03 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.29] by mailer3.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 23 Mar 2005 00:29:03 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: xah@xahlee.org X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 69272 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2005 00:29:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.166) by m23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 23 Mar 2005 00:29:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO xahlee.org) (206.130.99.40) by mta5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Mar 2005 00:29:02 -0000 Received: from [192.168.40.41] ([63.197.243.251]) (authenticated) by xahlee.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id j2MNLn222642; Tue, 22 Mar 2005 16:21:49 -0700 In-Reply-To: <20050319142549.3345.qmail@web81310.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20050319142549.3345.qmail@web81310.mail.yahoo.com> Message-Id: <3690b81029b9b89ba7dd9072e8359a7f@xahlee.org> Cc: lojban@yahoogroups.com To: clifford-j@sbcglobal.net X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) X-Originating-IP: 206.130.99.40 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: xah lee X-Yahoo-Profile: p0lyglut MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list lojban@yahoogroups.com; contact lojban-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list lojban@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 15:18:14 -0800 Subject: [lojban] Re: emphasis Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-archive-position: 9637 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: xah@xahlee.org Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list On Mar 19, 2005, at 6:25 AM, John E Clifford wrote: ... --- MorphemeAddict@wmconnect.com wrote: > ... > Xah, why do you think that there is a > difference in emphasis? Everything > I've read and heard tells me that they mean > exactly the same thing. I can't find the original post of the above message... but anyway, great discussion... i think this is a good illustration of one example that lojban can never become a popular human language while remaining its logical basis: in communication, people take all things into consideration, not just the content of the message. By the very fact that a language provides two ways to say the same thing, and a person made one choice, says something. May it be a personal joke, circumstantial, etc. This is one of the origin of slangs, new (illogical) coinage of words, usage, idioms etc. (if you are acquainted with the etymology of English words and idioms, you'll find all sorts of odd origins, from stories to mistakes.) imagine a practical example, where you are trying to woo a girl and say she is beautiful. It matter exactly how it is said, even if the content is semantically equivalent. (actually i think pickup lines illustrates a lot. In possibly a majority of human communication, how things are said adds significantly to the total effect of utterance.) ... i haven't had much training in linguistics (formal or otherwise)... but isn't this called pragmatics? PS am reading http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pragmatics now. Xah xah@xahlee.org http://xahlee.org/PageTwo_dir/more.html ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> In low income neighborhoods, 84% do not own computers. At Network for Good, help bridge the Digital Divide! http://us.click.yahoo.com/EA3HyD/3MnJAA/79vVAA/GSaulB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe, send mail to lojban-unsubscribe@onelist.com Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lojban/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: lojban-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/