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Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 17:40:19 -0300
From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= <jjllambias@gmail.com>
To: lojban-list@lojban.org
Subject: [lojban] Re: se selbri1 selbri2
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On 4/25/05, Opi Lauma <opi_lauma@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I would like again to ask about {nanla ckule} and
> {ckule co nanla}. According to the list of gismu {x1
> is a boy/lad [young male person] of age x2 immature by
> standard x3}. Since {nanla ckule} is {boy's school}
> one can conclude that construction {selbri1 selbri2}
> (as well as {selbri2 co selbri1}) extracts the first
> argument of {selbri1}.

The x1 argument is just the most salient of the relationship, 
but the modifier is the whole relationship, not just the x1. 
{broda brode} has the place structure of {brode}, and the 
meaning of brode is modified by the broda relationship in 
an unspecified way. For example, {mi plipe nelci}, "I jump 
enjoy" can mean that I like to jump or that I like someone 
that jumps, or maybe it means something else. You can 
make it clear which one you mean: {mi nelci lo nu plipe}, 
{mi nelci lo plipe}, but if you use the tanru, you have to 
rely on context.
 
> Another arguments of {selbri1}
> (such as "age" and "immaturity standard") do not take
> a part in the meaning of {selbri1 selbri2}. 

They do. When you use a brivla, all places are always
present.

> Can one
> somehow extract these arguments of {selbri1} to modify
> with there usage selbri2. For example {se selbri1
> selbri2} (se nanla ckule). 

That indeed makes the x2 more salient, but the other places
are still present.

>Does this construction mean
> {school of age}, 

The x2 is not any age, it is a boy's age, so maybe
"school of boy's age", whatever that means.

> or {te nanla ckule} means {school of
> immaturity standard}?

A boy's immaturity standard type of school.

mu'o mi'e xorxes