From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Thu Jun 09 04:31:59 2005 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Thu, 09 Jun 2005 04:31:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.50) id 1DgLG9-0003j0-UD for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Thu, 09 Jun 2005 04:31:42 -0700 Received: from n16a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.45]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DgLG3-0003iQ-5B for lojban-in@lojban.org; Thu, 09 Jun 2005 04:31:41 -0700 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=lima; d=yahoogroups.com; b=Lp23/VYzNjW9a3gAzLmIG4VCN0lcvIacTLx6p/H14Xp9Wz31KNTZvVUtM3M0qoiHvzdc0B7x5/z+CT+Xnr9DIRkzM3xcR3IQuQDYuKa1nvmVAd/npiyqni97dcNaib7x; Received: from [66.218.69.2] by n16.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jun 2005 11:31:25 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.31] by mailer2.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 09 Jun 2005 11:31:25 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Sender: opi_lauma@yahoo.com X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 44403 invoked from network); 9 Jun 2005 11:31:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.172) by m25.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 9 Jun 2005 11:31:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO web33411.mail.mud.yahoo.com) (68.142.206.143) by mta4.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 9 Jun 2005 11:31:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 74605 invoked by uid 60001); 9 Jun 2005 11:31:22 -0000 Message-ID: <20050609113122.74600.qmail@web33411.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [141.2.216.130] by web33411.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 09 Jun 2005 04:31:22 PDT To: lojban@yahoogroups.com X-Originating-IP: 68.142.206.143 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: Opi Lauma X-Yahoo-Profile: opi_lauma MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list lojban@yahoogroups.com; contact lojban-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list lojban@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 04:31:22 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [lojban] {lo}, {lu'o}, and {loi}. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Spam-Score: -2.5 (--) X-archive-position: 10112 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: opi_lauma@yahoo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list Hello, I try to systemize the usage of {lo}, {lu'o}, and {loi}. (I have started from the lessons of Nick Nicholas (http://www.tlg.uci.edu/~opoudjis/lojbanbrochure/lessons/less4articles.html)). Citation: Now consider the English sentence Three men carried a piano. This sentence has two potential meanings, as does any sentence involving a plural in English. You could be saying that the sentence holds true for each individual of the group. If the men involved are Andy, Barry, and Chris, you might be saying that Andy carried the piano, and Barry carried the piano, and Chris carried the piano. Alternatively, you could be saying that the sentence holds for the group as a unit: no one carried the piano individually, but all three men carried it together. My problem: I understood that "individual" interpretation means that sentence holds true for each individual of the group (as I understand it is necessary condition), in other words it means that Andy carried the piano, and Barry carried the piano, and Chris carried the piano. For "individual" interpretation one need to use {lo} or {le}. Ok. However it is not clear for me whether it is implied that each of them cary the piano individually. For example, if they all together carry the piano it means that each of them carry the piano, but nobody carry the piano individually. Is it still "individual" interpretation and one need to use {lo} or {le}? One can conclude that answer is "No". Because further it is written that in the second ("unit") interpretation "no one carried the piano individually", exactly as in my example. So if they all together carry the piano one need to use {lu'o}. However, if one uses {lu'o} it does not necessarily means that each person of the group take a part into the carryng of the piano. So, what I need to say if I want to say that each of them carry the piano and they do it together? __________________________________ Discover Yahoo! Stay in touch with email, IM, photo sharing and more. Check it out! http://discover.yahoo.com/stayintouch.html ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> What would our lives be like without music, dance, and theater? Donate or volunteer in the arts today at Network for Good! http://us.click.yahoo.com/TzSHvD/SOnJAA/79vVAA/GSaulB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe, send mail to lojban-unsubscribe@onelist.com Yahoo! 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