From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Mon Jun 13 12:38:34 2005 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Mon, 13 Jun 2005 12:38:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.50) id 1DhulN-0005Jf-Pm for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 12:38:25 -0700 Received: from web81303.mail.yahoo.com ([206.190.37.78]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DhulL-0005JX-Cv for lojban-list@lojban.org; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 12:38:25 -0700 Received: (qmail 49672 invoked by uid 60001); 13 Jun 2005 19:38:22 -0000 Message-ID: <20050613193822.49670.qmail@web81303.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [65.69.50.91] by web81303.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 12:38:22 PDT Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 12:38:22 -0700 (PDT) From: John E Clifford Subject: [lojban] Re: [lojban-beginners] Re: zvati To: lojban-list@lojban.org In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-archive-position: 10160 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: clifford-j@sbcglobal.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list --- Betsemes wrote: > > > >I consider it purely locational too, it's > just that I don't > > > >accept that something that is not there > can serve to indicate a > > > >location. {bu'u le karce} means "at the > location of the car", not > > > >"at any location the car ever was or will > be". {bu'u lo nu pu > > > >salci} indicates the location where a > party was held in the past, > > > >not a location where, for example, at some > point in the future, a > > > >party will have been held in the past. > > > > Who wrote that, by the way? > > Don't ever ask directions in New England! The location is there in any case, it is only the way the location is described that makes use of references to other times -- yes, even the future. Thus, tense differences here don't make the locational reference temporal. To be sure, we might want to locate things in 4-space and then we would need some added devices (or new combinations of what we have), but that does not seem to be the problem here.