From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Mon Sep 05 17:54:42 2005 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Mon, 05 Sep 2005 18:33:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.52) id 1ECRjN-0002vX-D3 for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Mon, 05 Sep 2005 17:54:33 -0700 Received: from zproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.162.193]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.52) id 1ECRjK-0002vP-R4 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Mon, 05 Sep 2005 17:54:33 -0700 Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id v1so749121nzb for ; Mon, 05 Sep 2005 17:54:29 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:sender:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=pAy+VqFTXZoI3WtzZFL1MFYjs36iicfEs2QeLEKg3C/FBlI+wyuuqbkeVIIp9kHBRFGyHIRq4QO40TZZHGGFvuICanJd1Xj9QEoYqcOr64jA/uyR4GFnEZOh+vDg5iw7i3OV/aydqUfl/THYxqSXLkdOV8/YX5LpJKomr39Zj+8= Received: by 10.36.120.1 with SMTP id s1mr5178725nzc; Mon, 05 Sep 2005 17:54:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.36.36.8 with HTTP; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 17:54:29 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <8f2fd4aa05090517542e004a71@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2005 17:54:29 -0700 From: Brandon Wirick To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] Re: Orthography In-Reply-To: <20050902151559.60239.qmail@web81301.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis Content-Disposition: inline References: <20050902005912.43585.qmail@web81306.mail.yahoo.com> <20050902151559.60239.qmail@web81301.mail.yahoo.com> X-Spam-Score: -2.5 (--) X-archive-position: 10500 X-Approved-By: rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: brandon@yrick.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list All right, you've encouraged me to take this seriously and help to create a truly great digital/script orthography (I'll call it a DSO from here on out.) I worked some things out and I have some new ideas. For reference (in hex), --40-- 20--10 --08-- 04--02 --01-- I think for the sake of a clear, unambiguous digital readout, the first of the 0x7F to go would be those that don't span the entire space horizontally and vertically (0x24 and 0x12 look identical.) Also, I really like the idea of 0x40 flagging capital letters. I count 23 continous characters with values less than 0x40 (i.e. without the top bar.) Three of these are horizontally symetrical, leaving ten pairs of mirrored characters. Conveniently, there are 23 Roman letters in the Lojban alphabet. These 23 "lower-case" characters correspond to 23 "capitalized" characters with 0x40 added. I don't have time to draw it up right now, but I would recommend using 0x3E ('H') for {xy}, becuase it just fits; 0x3F (upside-down 'A') for {my} because that would fit nicely with {py} and {by}, the other bilabial consonants being assigned to 0x2F ('b') and 0x1F ('d') in either order; and 0x37 ('U') for {ny} because that would fit nicely with {ty} and {dy}, the other dental consonants, being assigned to 0x27 (which looks almost like 't') and 0x17 (which looks almost like 'd'). Conveniently, {ly} and {ry} are closer to dental plosives than any other plosives, so assigning them 0x25 ('L') and 0x13 (backawards 'L') makes sense. >From there, all characters greater than 0x30, as well as two characters that are not, go to the vowels, and all the other consonants need to find whichever leftover pairs make the most sense. I'm leaning towards making all the unvoiced consonants be greater than 0x20 and all the unvoiced consonants be less than 0x20, except for {xy}, although it would make {by} look like 'd' and {py} look like 'b'. As for {xy}, if Aleksej is right, even if it accidentally is pronounced voiced, it would count as {xy}. There are seven additional continous characters that would not be continuous if 0x40 were subtracted. These may be used to encode {denpa bu}, {slaka bu}, {y'y}, and even {ga'e y'y}. The script will have to take a more convoluted form of the digital characters, because some of those characters are hard to write with the fluid motion of the pen. Oh well; that's a totally creative task and a subject for another e-mail. mu'omi'e.uirik. To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.