From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Thu Sep 08 14:45:57 2005 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Thu, 08 Sep 2005 14:45:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.52) id 1EDUDM-0001bm-Dq for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Thu, 08 Sep 2005 14:45:48 -0700 Received: from hobbiton.shire.net ([166.70.252.250]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.52) id 1EDUDF-0001bf-SH for lojban-list@lojban.org; Thu, 08 Sep 2005 14:45:48 -0700 Received: from [69.236.65.18] (helo=[192.168.1.4]) by hobbiton.shire.net with esmtpa (Exim 4.51) id 1EDUDE-000Mwp-1B for lojban-list@lojban.org; Thu, 08 Sep 2005 15:45:40 -0600 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v622) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis Message-Id: <6d05615ec054387b5fe7b527ec03608a@xahlee.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed To: lojban-list@lojban.org From: xah lee Subject: [lojban] lojban's difficulty Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 14:45:37 -0700 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.622) X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 69.236.65.18 X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: xah@xahlee.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on hobbiton.shire.net); SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-archive-position: 10540 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: xah@xahlee.org Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list from a lojban a-word-a-day list: corrected: mi sakci loi jisra = i suck some juice = = 我 吸 一点 果汁 http://xahlee.org/lojban/valsi_dikni/valsi_dikni.html loi=some of a mass. for more on loi, see: http://xahlee.org/lojban/hrefgram2/c6-s03.html ----------------- some thoughts about the difficulty of learning lojban: on lojban.org site it is touted that lojban is really easy to learn, easier than for example any natural language, because it is artificial and being regular. But I think actually lojban is probably very difficult to learn, because to understand lojban is tantamount to exploring the semantics and logic of human communication. here for example, who's to think what juice should be a mass or not? All a person really want to say is some juice, but lojban forces certain classification of meaning. (probably as a necessary consequence for speaking logically) One may still argue that it is difficult only because human are not used to it, that for someone who have studied it for a while or grew up with lojban would come with ease. This may be right, but still i think no other natural language forces user to understand semantic and logic like lojban therefore makes lojban quite more difficult than learning any natural language. the nature of difficulty in natural languages is basically irregularity. But for lojban, there's a complete different difficulty, in understanding logic and semantics. People without high IQ may still learn natural languages by rote. But mastering lojban takes quite some skill in reasoning. Xah ----------------- On Sep 7, 2005, at 7:41 AM, HeliodoR wrote: > mi sakci le jisra = i suck juice In fact, the correct form of this sentence in Lojban is:   mi sakci loi jisra = i suck [some] juice   The original sentence would mean "I suck the juice" which is only acceptable when You're talking about a certain bottle of that drink.   mi'e .xili,odor. ☄ ☄ To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.