From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Sat Sep 17 03:12:42 2005 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Sat, 17 Sep 2005 03:12:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.52) id 1EGZgG-00052d-SU for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Sat, 17 Sep 2005 03:12:25 -0700 Received: from zproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.162.200]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.52) id 1EGZg9-00051I-D2 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Sat, 17 Sep 2005 03:12:23 -0700 Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id k1so149005nzf for ; Sat, 17 Sep 2005 03:12:12 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=jwS9doPIMfYQWDnNdEynPag6pCJyf/ijllp2Y6c1W+UQf4J45E2KIr2jQ+g2j08bO6HbWZxZIJUcebvZvLifHOmWIM8LJ9AbppPRyhXwqFgvbA2cjkvZUeEwwANx8Irop7VsccbaQkopEA3yZCyw+wuRMbYI9cUsYchtc7vle4k= Received: by 10.54.68.11 with SMTP id q11mr101303wra; Sat, 17 Sep 2005 03:12:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.54.110.3 with HTTP; Sat, 17 Sep 2005 03:12:12 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 14:12:12 +0400 From: ignat 99 To: lojban-list@lojban.org Subject: [lojban] Re: Wheels in my Head In-Reply-To: <925d1756050916175611735157@mail.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_32806_9309867.1126951932229" References: <8f2fd4aa05091500343852e987@mail.gmail.com> <200509151546.42138.phma@phma.hn.org> <8f2fd4aa05091514151b3f6cb7@mail.gmail.com> <8f2fd4aa05091514431061dd5b@mail.gmail.com> <925d175605091518303b4b7bb2@mail.gmail.com> <8f2fd4aa0509151931507cdc42@mail.gmail.com> <925d1756050916175611735157@mail.gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: -2.4 (--) X-archive-position: 10609 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: ignat99@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list ------=_Part_32806_9309867.1126951932229 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline *Hi ! Sanskrit* Text in Devanagari is good solution :-)))) Or Text in Russian. =20 ki'e hot dog anehasie nihao zdravstvujte salam sdraveite labas ola vitaju tere zdorovi buli salut namaste tashi dele ---------------- ignat On 9/17/05, Jorge Llamb=EDas wrote: >=20 > On 9/15/05, Brandon Wirick wrote: > > > If you stress the first A you get two words: bangrspe ranto. > > > > Okay, so what's it supposed to be, {bangrsperAnto}? >=20 > Yep. Only one stress per brivla. >=20 > > {retsku} is not so easy, because the {tsk} cluster needs to be broken > > up somehow. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it permissible to > > assume a very short {ybu} between {ty} and {sy} in this case? >=20 > Well, yes and no. You can insert a non-lojban vowel between any pair > of consonants, but not in general "y". In my proposed morphology you > can use "y" after any CVC rafsi, so in this example {retysku} and {retsku= } > is the same word. But you couldn't insert a "y" in the middle of a=20 > fu'ivla. >=20 > > Thoughts on this? Would this facilitate or hinder understanding of > > Lojban syllables? Also, wouldn't this be a great format for synthetic > > Lojban speech programs? What other words seem troublesome? >=20 > The breaks don't always look like syllables to me. >=20 > With my morphology, the total number of syllables is 47602 (if my count > is correct, counting stressed and unstressed as distinct) so 65536 is > more than enough, but they don't pattern the way you have them. There > are 64 consonantal syllables (a consonant followed by l, m, n or r) and > the rest are syllabic ones. >=20 > The syllabic ones can be divided in three parts: an onset, a nucleus > and a coda. The nuclei and the codas are the simplest: >=20 > 19 possible nuclei: a, e, i, o, u, ai, au, ei, oi, =E1, =E9, =ED, =F3, = =FA, =E1i, > =E1u, =E9i, =F3i, y. > (Notice that "y" is never stressed, and the nucleus can't be empty.) >=20 > 18 possible codas: -, b, c, d, f, g, j, k, l, m, n, p, r, s, t, v, x, z > (The 17 consonants and nothing.) >=20 > There are 121 possible onsets, which can be divided in four classes: >=20 > 36 semi-consonantal: i, bi, ci, di, fi, gi, ji, ki, li, mi, ni, pi, > ri, si, ti, vi, xi, zi > u, bu, cu, du, fu, gu, ju, ku, lu, mu, nu, pu, ru, su, tu, vu, xu zu >=20 > 1 (the apostrophe): ' >=20 > 4 affricates: tc, ts, dj, dz >=20 > The 98 listed here: > > > (This list includes the 4 affricates, but they really don't fit the > same pattern. The glottal stop is included.) >=20 > So in all we have: >=20 > (98 + 4 + 1 + 36) * 19 * 18 + 64 =3D 47602 >=20 > mu'o mi'e xorxes >=20 >=20 > To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.or= g > with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if > you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help. >=20 > ------=_Part_32806_9309867.1126951932229 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Hi= !

Sanskrit Text in Devanagari is good solution :-))))
Or Text in Russian.

 
 ki'e
 hot dog
 anehasie
 nihao
 zdravstvujte
&nb= sp;salam
 sdraveite
 labas
 ola
 vitaju
 tere
 zdorovi buli
 salut
 namaste
 tashi dele
 ----------------
 ignat


On 9/17/05, Jorge Llamb=EDas <jjllam= bias@gmail.com> wrote:
On 9/15/05, Brandon Wirick <brandon= @yrick.com> wrote:
> > If you stress the first A you get tw= o words: bangrspe ranto.
>
> Okay, so what's it supposed to be,= {bangrsperAnto}?

Yep. Only one stress per brivla.

> {retsku} is not so eas= y, because the {tsk} cluster needs to be broken
> up somehow. Correct= me if I'm wrong, but isn't it permissible to
> assume a very short {= ybu} between {ty} and {sy} in this case?

Well, yes and no. You can insert a non-lojban vowel between any pai= r
of consonants, but not in general "y". In my proposed morpho= logy you
can use "y" after any CVC rafsi, so in this example {= retysku} and {retsku}
is the same word. But you couldn't insert a "y" in the middle= of a fu'ivla.

> Thoughts on this? Would this facilitate or hinde= r understanding of
> Lojban syllables? Also, wouldn't this be a great= format for synthetic
> Lojban speech programs? What other words seem troublesome?

= The breaks don't always look like syllables to me.

With my morpholog= y, the total number of syllables is 47602 (if my count
is correct, count= ing stressed and unstressed as distinct) so 65536 is
more than enough, but they don't pattern the way you have them. Thereare 64 consonantal syllables (a consonant followed by l, m, n or r) andthe rest are syllabic ones.

The syllabic ones can be divided in th= ree parts: an onset, a nucleus
and a coda. The nuclei and the codas are the simplest:

19 possib= le nuclei: a, e, i, o, u, ai, au, ei, oi, =E1, =E9, =ED, =F3, =FA, =E1i,=E1u, =E9i, =F3i, y.
(Notice that "y" is never stressed, and = the nucleus can't be empty.)

18 possible codas: -, b, c, d, f, g, j, k, l, m, n, p, r, s, t, v, = x, z
(The 17 consonants and nothing.)

There are 121 possible onse= ts, which can be divided in four classes:

36 semi-consonantal: i, bi= , ci, di, fi, gi, ji, ki, li, mi, ni, pi,
ri, si, ti, vi, xi, zi
u, bu, cu, du, fu, gu, ju, ku, lu, mu, nu, pu= , ru, su, tu, vu, xu zu

1 (the apostrophe): '

4 affricates: t= c, ts, dj, dz

The 98 listed here:
< http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=3DMorphology%3A%20consonants= >
(This list includes the 4 affricates, but they really don't fit= the
same pattern. The glottal stop is included.)

So in all we ha= ve:

(98 + 4 + 1 + 36) * 19 * 18 + 64 =3D 47602

mu'o mi'e xorxes=


To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org
with t= he subject unsubscribe, or go to=20 http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or= if
you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.


------=_Part_32806_9309867.1126951932229-- To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.