From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Mon Nov 07 08:53:09 2005 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Mon, 07 Nov 2005 08:53:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.54) id 1EZAEv-0001zg-1K for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Mon, 07 Nov 2005 08:53:01 -0800 Received: from mx6.mail.ru ([194.67.23.26]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.54) id 1EZAEs-0001zZ-GQ for lojban-list@lojban.org; Mon, 07 Nov 2005 08:53:00 -0800 Received: from [212.17.3.19] (port=5984 helo=[10.0.0.38]) by mx6.mail.ru with esmtp id 1EZAEq-000Cwv-00 for lojban-list@lojban.org; Mon, 07 Nov 2005 19:52:56 +0300 Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2005 22:52:50 +0600 From: Yanis Batura X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.30) Professional X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <329267130.20051107225250@mail.ru> To: Adam COOPER Subject: [lojban] To Adam COOPER's reply to: Exact translation of the pronoun "we" In-Reply-To: <12d58c160511070750p58caafdbte4976a786e5f7349@mail.gmail.com> References: <1487208813.20051107212945@mail.ru> <12d58c160511070750p58caafdbte4976a786e5f7349@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----------3DF41A127DBEA02" X-Spam-Score: -2.2 (--) X-archive-position: 10760 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: ybatura@mail.ru Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list ------------3DF41A127DBEA02 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Adam COOPER wrote: > Well, there's {mi}, there's {mi'a}, there's {mi'o} (speaker + > listener/addressee), and there's {ma'a} (speaker + listener + third > person(s)). I'm trying to think of a situation where one says "we" > in English & cannot pin the meaning down to one of these four... (If you have to pin the meaning of "we" down to one of these four every time, it won't be called that you have found an exact translation of "we".) Suppose you have come to an unknown street in an unknown city, and meet a guy who tells: - It is OUR street. Only WE can walk around here. Get away! In this case the guy shows that not only he thinks the street belongs to him, but THERE ARE OTHER guys thinking like him (e.g. from the same local gang). Neither {mi}, nor {mi'a}, nor {mi'o}, nor {mi'a} do express the sense which that guy puts in his English words. Because if he says, for example, {le mi'a klaji}, it won't necessarily mean "my and other guys 's street". It may also mean "my street". And so act the rest of translations suggested by Mr. COOPER. ------------3DF41A127DBEA02 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Adam COOPER wrote:

> Well, there's {mi}, there's {mi'a}, there's {mi'o} (speaker +

> listener/addressee), and there's {ma'a} (speaker + listener + third

> person(s)). I'm trying to think of a situation where one says "we"

> in English & cannot pin the meaning down to one of these four...

(If you have to pin the meaning of "we" down to one of these four every time, it won't be called that you have found an exact translation of "we".)

Suppose you have come to an unknown street in an unknown city, and meet a guy who tells:

- It is OUR street. Only WE can walk around here. Get away!

In this case the guy shows that not only he thinks the street belongs to him, but THERE ARE OTHER guys thinking like him (e.g. from the same local gang).

Neither {mi}, nor {mi'a}, nor {mi'o}, nor {mi'a} do express the sense which that guy puts in his English words. Because if he says, for example, {le mi'a klaji}, it won't necessarily mean "my and other guys 's street". It may also mean "my street". And so act the rest of translations suggested by Mr. COOPER.

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