From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Fri Mar 17 05:24:18 2006 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-list); Fri, 17 Mar 2006 05:24:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1FKEvu-0005cQ-SX for lojban-list-real@lojban.org; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 05:23:59 -0800 Received: from web81310.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([68.142.199.126]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1FKEvr-0005cI-QE for lojban-list@lojban.org; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 05:23:58 -0800 Received: (qmail 77707 invoked by uid 60001); 17 Mar 2006 13:23:54 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=sbcglobal.net; h=Message-ID:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=CLK1rwIVNWLufq3GjOlsEHzAKsXsoxxq72UJKqqSrKo28kK/TLce4Yphvqw1iwROqJyX9E0KdAHxH04oiv3zAEalC1sTs3cJpFcbGwAzfNmP5/wC0Vhz5ZuEvehkJzoSM/5nKsratJDUsvopZk18qcAfomLpt9Yjy/WISnluwK4= ; Message-ID: <20060317132354.77705.qmail@web81310.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Received: from [70.230.183.14] by web81310.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 17 Mar 2006 05:23:54 PST Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 05:23:54 -0800 (PST) From: John E Clifford Subject: [lojban] Re: semantic primes To: lojban-list@lojban.org In-Reply-To: <2cd.54bcf2d.314c0871@wmconnect.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -0.6 (/) X-archive-position: 11157 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-list-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: clifford-j@sbcglobal.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-list@lojban.org X-list: lojban-list Yes, that would be the sort of thing I have in mind. Lojban clearly has all the current primes and the requisite grammatical forms. I haven't tried either the English or the Lojban NSM for any word yet, but here is a same from another language, toki pona: X tawa Y e Z = At one time Z is in a place A X does something B to Z Because of this Z is in a different place Y. When Z is not mentioned it is X or a part of X When B is mentioned, it comes before tawa and the object Z becomes attached to B, moving in front of tawa. Something along this line for every predicate (at least) in Lojban would be nice (the paraphrases don't have to go back to basics so long as other terms are defined using only more basic terms). --- MorphemeAddict@wmconnect.com wrote: > In a message dated 3/17/2006 4:21:51 AM Central > Standard Time, > ecartis@digitalkingdom.org writes: > > > > Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 09:46:17 -0800 (PST) > > From: John E Clifford > > > Subject: [lojban] Re: organization of Lojban > material > > > > Some of the toepics that are coming up as I > > prepare my paper on semantic primes for the > > Constructed Languages Conference, seem > relevant > > to questions about organizing material for > > teaching/learning. > > > > Semantic primes per se are not the first > things > > one learns as a child, nor are they the > things > > out of which one builds one's other notions; > they > > could be but the idea of a prime does not > depend > > on that. Nor the defining devices using > primes > > necessarily foundational. > > I'd like to see definitions of Lojban words in > Anna Wierzbicka's Natural > Semantic Metalanguage (NSM) terms, as well as > definitions of Lojban words in the > Lojban version of NSM. > > stevo > To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to lojban-list-request@lojban.org with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if you're really stuck, send mail to secretary@lojban.org for help.